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Author Topic: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?  (Read 1186 times)

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Offline TooL69

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2017, 12:02:24 am »
By the way, in the game in some situations it would be possible to use a fast recharge of the musket (which is quite historical):

Offline Shadilaynes

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2017, 12:11:32 am »
By the way, in the game in some situations it would be possible to use a fast recharge of the musket (which is quite historical):

I imagine that could be added later on as a thing that could be done randomly, and have a small chance of occurring each time you load. besides that, possibly a  skill to unlock, and something you could toggle on and off in the game somehow?

Offline Max

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2017, 01:06:53 am »
I'm not sure that TooL69 understands what he is writing. At the beginning he wanted to "easily hit the target" at 90 yards, which was already not realistic as proven by his own figures. Now he wants to "easily hit the target" at 350 meters. Even the French Famas has only 300 meters as its practical range.  ::)

Regarding shooting training, the informations he gives are a mess and most often wrong or inaccurate. At Boulogne there was almost no shooting training as explained by Dauriac in his book. It was only after the defeat in Russia that the French changed their doctrine and increased the number of shooting sessions. Yet, as Dauriac said, the reality was that they had so many casualties that the increase in shooting sessions was mostly meant to compensate for the overall much shorter training of new recruits.

Here again, a demonstration that confirms Col. Hanger's statement that you had to be lucky to hit a man at 200 yards, even with proper training and a good musket:


« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 01:09:29 am by Max »

Offline TooL69

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2017, 01:26:57 pm »
Quote
I imagine that could be added later on as a thing that could be done randomly, and have a small chance of occurring each time you load. besides that, possibly a  skill to unlock, and something you could toggle on and off in the game somehow?

I like how this method of recharging is implemented in GTA 5. But of course this should not be the basic mode of shooting, otherwise the whole game will turn into a casual shooter.

By the way, Maori warriors did not use ramrods to reload muskets, preferring bullets of much smaller diameter than the barrel bore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

Offline TooL69

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2017, 01:50:21 pm »
Quote
I'm not sure that TooL69 understands what he is writing. At the beginning he wanted to "easily hit the target" at 90 yards, which was already not realistic as proven by his own figures. Now he wants to "easily hit the target" at 350 meters. Even the French Famas has only 300 meters as its practical range.  ::)

Well, if ordinary soldiers who shot at best 10 times a year, somehow hit the target at 328 yards, then a very experienced shooter would have been able to get even more.

Quote
Here again, a demonstration that confirms Col. Hanger's statement that you had to be lucky to hit a man at 200 yards, even with proper training and a good musket:

And I do not argue with the fact that for 200 yards a single person is very difficult to get even for an experienced shooter.
It is worth saying that Murphey's Muskets shot from the original musket of 1812 produced. And also he said that the secret of accurate shooting in a special charge of gunpowder.

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Offline Max

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2017, 09:11:16 pm »
Well, if ordinary soldiers who shot at best 10 times a year, somehow hit the target at 328 yards, then a very experienced shooter would have been able to get even more.
The figures that give around 20% at 300 yards are based on volley fire on a target representing a whole enemy line. It's not like you would get 20% chance to hit a single man at 300 yards. Moreover since you wanted to stress the difference between actual battle accuracy and "technical" accuracy, you wouldn't pick a large target to check actual accuracy... Indeed, in a battle, as you admitted yourself, you will most probably not see as well after your first shot, and therefore your accuracy will decrease, so firing at 300 yards is clearly not realistic, not even at 200 yards.

Regarding your comparison with bows, range is certainly not the main reason for which muskets were used, especially if we look at the actual accuracy in battle, which was more than very low as I already said. The reason is that muskets are much easier to use than bows, you don't have to be very well trained to use a musket. If you look at your own figures in one experiment "well trained" soldiers would put 53% of bullets on the regiment-sized target at 100 yards while ordinary soldiers would put 40. So one has to wonder whether it's worth the time and money to train soldiers and the answer is clearly no, except for a few elite troops.

Longbows had good range and could fire much quicker. I'm pretty sure that longbows would have been deadly against an infantry regiment. The problem was that using bows required much more training, and also they didn't had the same kind of melee defense, especially against cavalry.

Arrows were used efficiently by Cossacks during the Napoleonic Wars:

https://www.rbth.com/arts/2014/07/29/how_russias_steppe_warriors_took_on_napoleons_armies_37029
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:14:09 pm by Max »

Online Jackson

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 04:23:08 am »
I think it might be racist to call Kalmyks 'Cossacks'.
-Freelance character designer for Holdfast: Nations At War.

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 09:33:20 am »
I think it might be racist to call Kalmyks 'Cossacks'.

more often Bashkirs use bows
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Online Jackson

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2017, 09:43:13 am »
Bashkirs are also not Cossacks.
-Freelance character designer for Holdfast: Nations At War.

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2017, 10:21:40 am »
Bashkirs are also not Cossacks.

you right

but Bashkirian regiments called "bashkirian cossacian regiment" and members can be called "cossaks"
we can hear "cossak of kalmyk regiment"
there "cossak" mean "light cavalery" not something ethnic

Online Jackson

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:07 am »
I'd be curious to know if the Bashkir Cossack host was the one that used bows, since they were at least officially armed and dressed like the Don Cossacks.
-Freelance character designer for Holdfast: Nations At War.

Online Irregular Alcoholic

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2017, 12:22:43 pm »
I'd be curious to know if the Bashkir Cossack host was the one that used bows, since they were at least officially armed and dressed like the Don Cossacks.

if you realy interesting Im can finde historical sources - Im have info what to Bashkirs were forbidden to use fire arms after Pugachev's Rebellion [1773—1775]
and there reason why they use some ancient weapons like bows
and all cossaks use similar uniform just different colors and minor differences...Don Cossaks regiments just more large

Offline Bluehawk

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2017, 12:29:33 pm »
The Bashkirs were not prescribed a uniform like the Don Host, or any cossack host, before 1829. They are always described and depicted by eyewitnesses in the Napoleonic Wars as wearing their national costume, including bows and quivers of arrows.

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2017, 12:33:20 pm »
The Bashkirs were not prescribed a uniform like the Don Host, or any cossack host, before 1829. They are always described and depicted by eyewitnesses in the Napoleonic Wars as wearing their national costume, including bows and quivers of arrows.

Im think this blue coat Docm mean "like cossaks"

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Online Jackson

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Re: Musket Accuracy In holdfast?
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2017, 12:41:15 pm »
What I was thinking of was the Kalmyk host, which was apparently equipped like the Don host. As per usual, I am 100% wrong about everything.
-Freelance character designer for Holdfast: Nations At War.