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Author Topic: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary  (Read 1877 times)

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Offline John Price

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2017, 03:21:50 pm »
Ships do look to be a good bit of fun. However, I don't know if I am sold on infantry yet.
Still & Proudly leading the 18e Regiment d'Infanterie de Ligne on NW for 5 years.

Offline AgentMWolf

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2017, 03:24:24 pm »
That looks really brilliant.

"You will press the ‘D’ or ‘A’ keys to rotate the captain’s wheel a certain amount of degrees depending on how hard a turn you would like to make. The ship’s wheel will visually turn according to the direction you’re steering towards. Much like the ship’s speed, this means that it will increase the complexity of the system to give players a chance to further increase their skills."

Will there be a ingame indicator on how many degrees you are turning the wheel?

Offline Dius

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 03:28:15 pm »
Lucky Aztir  >:(

Amazing graphics  :D

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 04:08:39 pm »
Ships do look to be a good bit of fun. However, I don't know if I am sold on infantry yet.

There is more content on the Army side of things we have yet to reveal. Stay tuned to our developer blogs.


That looks really brilliant.

"You will press the ‘D’ or ‘A’ keys to rotate the captain’s wheel a certain amount of degrees depending on how hard a turn you would like to make. The ship’s wheel will visually turn according to the direction you’re steering towards. Much like the ship’s speed, this means that it will increase the complexity of the system to give players a chance to further increase their skills."

Will there be a ingame indicator on how many degrees you are turning the wheel?

Yes, one of the reasons we haven't worked on this steering system, for now, is because it's going to require additional UI work to make sure that the system is well understandable. Cameron (Our UI designer) has his hands full with other bits of the UI right now.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:12:49 pm by Refleax »

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Offline Coldstreamer

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 04:58:33 pm »
Ships do look to be a good bit of fun. However, I don't know if I am sold on infantry yet.

There is more content on the Army side of things we have yet to reveal. Stay tuned to our developer blogs.


That looks really brilliant.

"You will press the ‘D’ or ‘A’ keys to rotate the captain’s wheel a certain amount of degrees depending on how hard a turn you would like to make. The ship’s wheel will visually turn according to the direction you’re steering towards. Much like the ship’s speed, this means that it will increase the complexity of the system to give players a chance to further increase their skills."

Will there be a ingame indicator on how many degrees you are turning the wheel?

Yes, one of the reasons we haven't worked on this steering system, for now, is because it's going to require additional UI work to make sure that the system is well understandable. Cameron (Our UI designer) has his hands full with other bits of the UI right now.

Kind of out there question... but you will have bigger ships like frigates, 1st rates brigs and what nots right?

Offline Olafson

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2017, 02:39:23 pm »
What a fascinating vessel you've chosen. That bow bulwark is downright hilarious, and I'm glad to be made aware of such a unique design.

Would you be interested in some helpful nitpicking?

Quote
The 2-Gun Schooner
In case you're not entirely satisfied with the sound of '2-gun schooner,' the British would call her a Gun Schooner. Or even just an Armed Schooner. Very small gun counts were usually referred to that way, even if the vessel did not fill the Gunboat role.

Quote
Due to its size and lateen-rigged sails,
Those are gaff-rigged sails, not lateen. This is less of a nitpick and more of a genre faux paux.
I could comment extensively on how they perform relative to square sails, but I don't know what you are shooting for on the authenticity vs. balance spectrum.

Quote
This means that it would be best to lower them if you want to go towards that direction.
This is a common misconception about square sails. No square rigger would ever furl its sails when going to windward, they would just take their lumps and make headway within six points of the wind (65-70 degrees). Schooners with square topsails would brace them up sharp and use them to windward also.

Cheers!

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback/help! We really appreciate it.

We decided to call this ship a 2-Gun Schooner so that new players can easily distinguish how many guns a ship carries. For example, the Brig-Sloop we’ve shown in our previous blogs we also refer to as the 12-Gun Brig-Sloop in the game.

Yes, you are right. I don't know how this could have happened. They are gaff rigged… Apologies for that (We have now amended the blog post).

We want to find the right balance between gameplay and realism. We wanted to incorporate the mechanics mentioned in this blog both to promote competitive play and to keep that balance I’ve mentioned before. As such we made it so that sailing directly into the wind is not a great idea, and each sail has different top speeds and angles that it can sail.

Yes, I believe this is just a misunderstanding. In the game, square sails are fairly effective going windward with an angle up to 60-65 degrees, while other types of sails might perform better. This also means that you will have to tack, if you want to sail towards that direction. For example, while the top speed of the Brig-Sloop is higher, the angle that it can sail are more limited when compared to the 2-Gun Schooner.

If the schooners Captain is smart, he can outmanoeuvre the Brig-Sloop or even run away from it, as it is able to go much closer to the wind. The acceleration and deceleration speeds of each ship are also different, due to different weights.

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Online Brock

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2017, 06:29:17 pm »
Upon release, depending on server max population, I would really want to see double decker frigates and such. I know people have really high expectations for 1st rates, but people need to realize that its just not really possible, because the ships would be controled by 300 men, despite A game could shorten the amount of players needed for tasks, but you would still need ~150 men to do operate the boat at some degree of efficiency. Just one of them.

Online Nurdbot

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2017, 06:57:39 pm »
I'd be happy if we'd get even the lowest rated frigate now as the biggest ship, I can't imagine anything bigger for multiple reasons including balance, engine performance and the very fact it would be odd they'd send a ship of the line to do coastal raiding.


Online Harris1815

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2017, 07:05:17 pm »
Spoiler
[close]

Hey Brock just imagine being on a first rate going at 1-3 knots while the ship is getting constantly bombarded by 2-gun schooners.

God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best  ~  Voltaire

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2017, 07:06:36 pm »
All in due time Gentlemen. We will be working on introducing a bigger naval vessel than the Brig-Sloop we've shown in our previous developer blogs after we release on Early Access. A frigate sounds like a good place to start from.

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2017, 07:09:53 pm »
Quote
We want to find the right balance between gameplay and realism. We wanted to incorporate the mechanics mentioned in this blog both to promote competitive play and to keep that balance I’ve mentioned before. As such we made it so that sailing directly into the wind is not a great idea, and each sail has different top speeds and angles that it can sail.

I thing I want you AGS to keep in mind. When it comes to competitive gameplay, lets try not to spoil the era to much. Sure there was running, and some prone shooting, and woodland to hide behind. But keep it authentic to the era. Competitive in NW should of never been a single 60 man column, were you stop to quickly to shoot so there ends up not enough time to for everyone to line up, so you end up only having 10 people able to shoot. Please use the era to your advantage and make, it like it was meant in history. Discipline and order ruled the battlefield. Not chaos and people scattering everywhere. Thats being competitive. Trying to be the foot guards, not the militia were it is just or more affective, like currently in NW.

Diciplined regiments, such as 32nd and 29th don't have the proper game mechanics that make them scary and terrifing on the battlefield. Instead some trolly militia regiment, flank them with some dumb formation, and eats them alive.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 07:27:26 pm by Brock »

Offline ppitm

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2017, 07:50:28 pm »
A game could shorten the amount of players needed for tasks, but you would still need ~150 men to do operate the boat at some degree of efficiency. Just one of them.

Yes and no. If you automate the loading of guns somewhat, you could make a very detailed simulation while simplifying the necessary tasks considerably.

In reality, 40-50 men can handle the sails a large frigate. You just do things sequentially, rather than simultaneously.

Here is the other end of the spectrum, tacking a 74-gun ship under all plain sail: http://i.imgur.com/3eQGFiC.jpg

In other words, perhaps 50 separate lines that need to be tended, in all. Even in a simulation so detailed that we have never seen its like, you could then require 1 man per line instead of 4, or 3 men instead of 15. Leave the staysails for later and douse the courses, and suddenly 40 men can handle the ship.

Of course, no game will ever be that detailed, so with further simplification you can bring the crew numbers down even more.

Bottom line, it is the *guns* that required such large crews for warships. And reloading dozens of guns in a realistic manner was never going to be fun or feasible anyway.

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2017, 09:12:05 pm »
Quote
We want to find the right balance between gameplay and realism. We wanted to incorporate the mechanics mentioned in this blog both to promote competitive play and to keep that balance I’ve mentioned before. As such we made it so that sailing directly into the wind is not a great idea, and each sail has different top speeds and angles that it can sail.

I thing I want you AGS to keep in mind. When it comes to competitive gameplay, lets try not to spoil the era to much. Sure there was running, and some prone shooting, and woodland to hide behind. But keep it authentic to the era. Competitive in NW should of never been a single 60 man column, were you stop to quickly to shoot so there ends up not enough time to for everyone to line up, so you end up only having 10 people able to shoot. Please use the era to your advantage and make, it like it was meant in history. Discipline and order ruled the battlefield. Not chaos and people scattering everywhere. Thats being competitive. Trying to be the foot guards, not the militia were it is just or more affective, like currently in NW.

Diciplined regiments, such as 32nd and 29th don't have the proper game mechanics that make them scary and terrifing on the battlefield. Instead some trolly militia regiment, flank them with some dumb formation, and eats them alive.

Where does light infantry, cavalry or artillery fit into this vision of yours? If this game becomes the perfect line infantry simulator your going to lose the interest of people who can't have the time to train to be pro or smaller groups of people who can't roll as one big clan.

The developers have stated that fun will always go before realism, they will take realism as far as it can go before it dips into simulator territory though. It seems the biggest beef you might be having is before getting lucky and just firing their muskets on the move. Instead of a overtly complicated animation and painful time limit between firing, perhaps a musket version of bayonet practing from the Warband DLC where staying still and taking your time gives you more accuracy whilst hip firing does nothing unless the enemy is right in front of you?

They still have yet to reveal or show how infantry stuff is going to work too.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 09:19:19 pm by Nurdbot »

Offline Rejenorst

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2017, 09:26:07 am »
This is just my own opinion and not related to devs but I guess the land battles should focus on encouraging people to stick together in groups.

In NW inaccurate muskets, the fear of melee gank and cavalry encouraged you to stay, if not in formation; then in your groups to discourage others with a wall of fire/bayonets.
Conversely cannons attempted to break your formation and make you easier targets for cavalry/enemy infantry to pick off.

Stragglers and cannons were easy(ish) pickings for cavalry, formations/groups easy pickings for cannons and a good formation of infantry ready to fire the scourge of cavalry etc Good use of either 3 could sometimes turn a battle depending terrain/teams/skill etc.

A bayonet/Cavalry rush at the right moment of a good volley of cannon/muskets at the right time could turn an engagement between 2 groups.

All the game can do is try and encourage people to stick together by encouraging a sense of vulnerability when on your own and reward when in groups. Muskets should be inaccurate enough to encourage line firing and not discourage groups/formations. Cavalry should be there to exploit any weaknesses in formations/infantry/unguarded cannons (nothing better than seeing infantry scramble to line up shoulder to shoulder when they see cav)  while cannons should be aiming to break those formations for cavalry/other infantry to swoop in and attack.   

Some Napoleon quotes for fun:

  • Artillery is more essential to cavalry than to infantry, because cavalry has no fire for its defense, but depends on the sabre.
  • It is the business of cavalry to follow up the victory, and to prevent the beaten army from rallying.
  • Charges of cavalry are equally useful at the beginning, the middle and the end of a battle. They should be made always, if possible, on the flanks of the infantry, escpecially when the latter is engaged in front.
  • Great battles are won with artillery.
  • The worse the troops the greater the need of artillery.
  • God is on the side with the best artillery
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 01:41:03 pm by Rejenorst »

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Re: Developer Blog 10 - 2-Gun Schooner. A worthy adversary
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2017, 10:46:33 am »
I'm very excited :)