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Poll

Would you like to see grenades in Holdfast: NaW? They will only be available in limited quantities (You can select a maximum of two options)

Yes, I would like to see grenades in the game - For specific naval and army based classes.
Yes, I would like to see grenades in the game - But only for specific naval based classes.
Yes, I would like to see grenades in the game - But only if they're pickable instead of tied to a specific class.
Yes, I would like to see grenades in the game - But only if they can be toggled on and off by server administrators.
No, I wouldn't like to see grenades in the game.

Author Topic: Grenaders with HG?  (Read 1309 times)

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Offline Refleax

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 05:11:29 pm »

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Offline Mendoza

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2017, 05:14:07 pm »
Great  :) looking forward for the result of this poll  ;)

I choose only naval, because a regular use on land armys are... hmmm. yea i dont know
Most important thing for the grenades from my sight is the option for the admin to make it available or bann it from the server. 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 05:17:17 pm by Mendoza »



Offline Scandypandy

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2017, 05:52:12 pm »
On NRP nades are great, but there ARE glaring issues with them.
The main issue is people will pick them and abuse them if they do too much damage or that people will just lob them at enemies in general if it's effective.

If there was a may to make you have a "chance" to get them if you pick a certain class, that'd probably be ideal.
On NRP they have a chance to explode in your hand when you try to throw them, but generally making them not viable for use except in specific scenarios (aka, they aren't just a portable thrown cannonball) is the way to go I reckon. People will always choose a certain class if they think it'll net them more kills.

Most criticism of the grenades comes from people who like structure; when players are met with the prospect of being grenaded they have a natural instinct to scatter which can be very frustrating for officers. We also have to deal with players who will pick the class then run off alone to try and net a big killstreak with them.

I reckon if:
-Not EVERYONE who picks the "grenade class" is promised a grenade
-Grenades aren't always guaranteed to kill or better yet rarely do/but DO damage structures heavily (not sure if this is beyond doing)
-They DEFINITELY shouldn't explode on impact; we implemented a delay, smoke and a hissing sound to make them easy to spot

Seeing as they weren't a major part of all battles, I think they can be added for great fun (to break an enemy defensive position or to aid in an assault) but they can't be too powerful or you just end up with players wiping out entire lines/sending things into chaos.

Either way, a way to disable them without disabling a class would be great too; on NRP if we want nades out we have to refuse players the ability to play footguard whatsoever.
I'm no script-daddy though so I'm speaking on experience of running a very populated server with nades, I don't actually know what's viable script-wise ;_;
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 05:57:56 pm by Scandypandy »
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Offline Jägermeister

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2017, 06:00:38 pm »
Well my offers to make it less abusable;

-Hand Grenades should be in spesific classes.
-Hand Grenades must have a fuse to light it up, and it should be lighten only standing still. (I mean can not light them while moving)
-Hand Grenades' fuses should make seizable (may about the lighter) and it should be lighten in 4-5 secs or more.
-Hand Grenades' range and accuracy should be low, because in 1800's it mostly used in siege to harrashing the buildings.

Offline Bannerman

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2017, 06:03:13 pm »
As a history-buff, I really can't support allowing grenades. I am fine if the community does, and will accept that choice.

For historic contex. By the 18th Century, the usage of grenades were largely inferior to the tactics of Line, and the technology of muskets/flintlocks. Now, regiments of Grenadiers still existed, as they were seen as Elites, due to the training and discipline needed to carry these pre-18th Century grenades and use them effectively.

I could maybe the see the use of grenades during sieges, though that be under the use of Pioneers/Sappers.

Offline Scandypandy

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2017, 06:06:11 pm »
Well my offers to make it less abusable;

-Hand Grenades should be in spesific classes.
-Hand Grenades must have a fuse to light it up, and it should be lighten only standing still. (I mean can not light them while moving)
-Hand Grenades' fuses should make seizable (may about the lighter) and it should be lighten in 4-5 secs or more.
-Hand Grenades' range and accuracy should be low, because in 1800's it mostly used in siege to harrashing the buildings.

Those are pretty good,the idea of needing to stand still/a potential delay in lighting is interesting; it would prevent people trying to just score a cheap kill because trying to hit something moving would be hellish.

I'd be fine with throwing mechanics being equally as janky and awkward as they are in NW, it adds to the challenge.
But yes, I see grenades as a tool or even a sort of "debuff", i.e not something that is primarily used for kills or really damage to players at all.

In regards to historical accuracy, I think a bit of leniency in this department is okay for the sake of the potential gameplay enhancements. Provided they don't use the holy hand grenade model that we use on NRP, that is :^)
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Offline Pickle

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2017, 06:12:21 pm »
Sounds like a good idea, but it would be better if said Grenadier unit spawned with 1 Grenade, but only a certain percentage of the server could go Grenadier at any given time. Let's say the server has 200 people and only 20% of the server could go Grenadier. Then you would have 40 people that have 1 Grenade which wouldn't completely break the server.

I think this is a good idea. 1 grenade would definitely be enough since we don't want them being too op or causing fps issues.

I reckon if:
-Not EVERYONE who picks the "grenade class" is promised a grenade
-Grenades aren't always guaranteed to kill or better yet rarely do/but DO damage structures heavily (not sure if this is beyond doing)
-They DEFINITELY shouldn't explode on impact
I also think this is a good idea but also I don't think anyone should be able to hold more than one at a time.

I'm a little skeptical about the grenades but I think AGS would do it right if they are going to put them in.

Offline Scandypandy

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2017, 07:26:14 pm »
All in all, I think in my opinion they aren't essential but if they ARE added they shouldn't be a viable weapon. They ought to be used for sake of destroying structures or something of the sort; if they can kill players easily then they need to be either rare to obtain or extremely limited.

Taking a second to light the fuse, only throwing them while stationary...all things I think which add to the defence against players who want to abuse them.

That said, they don't even need to be added as they technically aren't really THAT accurate, but if they are added they need to be quite meticulously balanced and should have an option to be disabled without limiting units, ideally.
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Offline Refleax

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2017, 07:42:09 pm »
That said, they don't even need to be added as they technically aren't really THAT accurate, but if they are added they need to be quite meticulously balanced and "should have an option to be disabled without limiting units, ideally".

Yes, that's how we would make the setting work. It'll disable the use of grenades, not the class it's tied to.

PS: Do share this thread around amongst your mates! The more input we get the better.

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Offline Shockwave

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2017, 10:40:07 pm »
Well i've experienced grenades on NRP in all forms, from when they were really OP when they were first added, and then how they were nerfed slowly, I think the perfect implementation would be to have it tied to a class - and then be up to admin if they want to enable the grenades (not the class itself), along with that, it should also be something that has a fuse that takes 3-4 seconds to ignite, but this basically makes it useless if it doesnt have a good explosion radius... not necessarily an "explosion" radius maybe, but shrapnel that has a big radius, this way you're able to get away from it, but if its thrown into a big chunk of people it will make sure camping is avoided.  So basically, if you throw it into 2-3 people it wont do much because those 2-3 people will have enough time to get away and spread out, but if thrown into 5-6 (or more) if they get away, shrapnel might still get a few. this way you ensure that grenades do their job of stopping camping and it also stops edgy rambos from using it in melee combat, because it becomes ineffective.
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Offline Nurdbot

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2017, 01:40:11 am »
I picked the option that states they should be pick ups, tied to siege maps or the decks of the largest ships in a box for the defenders with only a limited amount.

If you've ever played Vermintide, the grenade fuse should work like that. At least a one second warm up and two extra seconds to light the fuse before throwing. I think as a weapon they should be for concentrated defense only.

Offline Izzdaer

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2017, 01:49:38 am »
I like the idea of it almost like vermintide as well. Long fuse, make it far less accurate or devastating than the vermintide one, and a pickup on siege maps that can have an affect on tactics due to whether a commander feels they are valuable enough to go out of their way to get to them. Tying them to a class with one use might be great for linebattles but in a public siege for example where you die a lot that's still a lot of frequent grenades and i think that would cause a storm of (albeit inaccurate) grenades flying over the walls. Whereas a limited number of pickup grenades to aid in the siege and give it another dimension, sounds very cool to me.

Could we get as a map based option added to the poll?

Offline Brock

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2017, 01:57:16 am »
Well my offers to make it less abusable;

-Hand Grenades should be in spesific classes.
-Hand Grenades must have a fuse to light it up, and it should be lighten only standing still. (I mean can not light them while moving)
-Hand Grenades' fuses should make seizable (may about the lighter) and it should be lighten in 4-5 secs or more.
-Hand Grenades' range and accuracy should be low, because in 1800's it mostly used in siege to harrashing the buildings.

*Range is key for grenades* It should be skillful and difficult to throw over a wall.

Offline Jägermeister

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2017, 02:38:00 am »
Well my offers to make it less abusable;

-Hand Grenades should be in spesific classes.
-Hand Grenades must have a fuse to light it up, and it should be lighten only standing still. (I mean can not light them while moving)
-Hand Grenades' fuses should make seizable (may about the lighter) and it should be lighten in 4-5 secs or more.
-Hand Grenades' range and accuracy should be low, because in 1800's it mostly used in siege to harrashing the buildings.

*Range is key for grenades* It should be skillful and difficult to throw over a wall.
That's what I'm trying to mean.

Offline Pew Pew Youre Dead

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Re: Grenaders with HG?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2017, 01:45:48 pm »
I added grenades to my "Napoleonic Roleplay" server to break camping of forts and add a bit of variety to my server - does this mean it should be in the actual game?

I don't think that it should be a core feature of the game, but it'd be fun to see them have a role in it somehow, so I propose that we should do "Toggle by administrators", so that you wouldn't see them everywhere
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