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Author Topic: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!  (Read 3829 times)

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Offline Getty

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Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« on: May 26, 2017, 11:45:35 am »
Hey guys, we've been testing the melee and before we decided to further explore certain ways we could improve on it.  We decided to look for specific idea's/concepts you guys may want to implement, for example I had an idea tonight that we could possible put in a shove type attack with some differences that would replace kicking.

Everyone's feedback would be appreciated as we know its an important area of the game for many players.

I would just like to clarify that all of these are suggestions and nothing is set in stone, so don't necessarily expect these features to be ready for early access.

I've done a fair amount of testing on the game, and I think its time we got some outside feedback before we implemented anything too drastic. So feedback would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 11:47:57 am by Getty »

Offline Miller

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 12:25:48 pm »
Making the distance between you and the player that hits you matter. So if you only get stabbed with the like the 10 mm of the weapon it does less damage then when the entire bayonets penetrates you. Thats a idea I have.


« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:53:12 pm by Miller »

Offline Exodus

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 12:36:00 pm »
Just a suggestion while thinking of ideas. The possible ability to charge like Battlefield 1, demonstrated here:


Like battlefield 1, this charge makes you faster however slower after the charge finishes. Implementing this would mean more vulnerability for those who are charging as it makes them slower to get out of the combat zone.

To make this not as lethal and a one hit kill with 50 people all charging with the speed as shown, you can still block the charge. This will also force more team play and strategy, instead of just shooting at the enemy, you might want to wait for them to get closer and charge, then you can have shots remaining.

Offline Nurdbot

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 05:33:09 pm »
It would be nice if bayonets, musket butts and swords all had their own niches to fill in close combat. Swords should give you more flexibility but perhaps require more patince and skill, whilst using either end of the musket is a more simplified brutal choice when you need to take something down in a hurry?


Offline Pugglesworth

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2017, 07:47:43 am »
I had an idea tonight that we could possible put in a shove type attack with some differences that would replace kicking.

Intriguing, could you elaborate on this a bit? I do think that there should be some kind of high risk/high reward move that will keep melee from becoming too monotonous. Not decisive, but no cheap gimmick either. And its use should definitely depend on skill, since that is what melee is all about.

Here is a collection of ideas I've come up with and borrowed from elsewhere (mostly borrowed):

Parry/"Perfect" Block - Block (or attack) at the precise time and the enemy will be knocked off balance or something like that; too early and it's just a normal block, too late and you get hit. It could also be separated from the blocking and attacking functions (e.g. parry button), so that being too early as well as too late could prove fatal.
This is kinda like M&B's chambering bug/feature.

Dodging - A quick sidestep or hop to get out of the way, but you can't block or attack while doing so.
If you can dodge a wrench, well you will probably still not be able to dodge a cannon ball. Could probably use some ducks, dips, and dives as well.

Feint - A quick little jab which has no effect but is intended to distract the opponent.
Not sure if this would have any use at all, since it's already kind of possible to do this by canceling an attack with the block button.

Heavy/Power Attack - Swing harder for extra damage, and possibly break someone's block or stagger them, though it should be reasonably avoidable, even taking long enough to execute that someone could fit in a normal attack during the windup.
This could make bayonet battles interesting if it were to become the only way to score a 1-hit kill (excepting the damage boost conferred when the officer calls a charge).

Sprinting - Sometimes it helps to be just that much faster. Like in the BF1 example above, a sprinting attack can be lethal but hard to aim. You could also sprint to get to a teammate in time to help them. Maybe limited to skirmishers and light infantry.
I would hope not to see people sprinting around like coke-addicted COD fanboys.

Stamina - Every physical action costs stamina, the more strength and agility it requires, the more stamina it uses. When the player is tired, the most strenuous activities, such as heavy attacks, sprinting, dodging, etc. will become unusable. When the player is completely winded, they will be slowed to a crawl, attacks will do less damage, and blocks will be less effective (ex. always get staggered or even take damage on a successful block). Stamina regenerates the fastest while sitting, and slowly while marching. Musicians could give a stamina regen boost. Medics could load their needle shooters with adrenaline and fire at teammates to give them a stamina boost, or at enemies to give them lethal adrenal gland ruptures (just kidding).
Not so sure if this would make fights end quicker because everyone gets winded and blocking becomes useless, or if it would make them take longer because everyone would stop to rest before fighting and be more hesitant to attack during a melee (to counter this, the blocker could lose more stamina than the attacker, and holding blocks could also drain stamina over time.) Could also help against spamming and spin-to-win. This could be a "hardcore mode" feature or server option.

Note when I say possibly I'm not indicating probability, excessive RNG is bad for competitive play since even the most skillful players can be defeated by sheer bad luck. Melee should be won by skillful play, not by luck and overpowered moves. The system should also be kept as simple as possible, and not overloaded with cheap gimmicks. Not sure what the community agrees on, but this is what I think.

Offline Jägermeister

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2017, 02:50:06 am »
Well the melee system would be dependable to units like Guard units would have more damage in melee combat, highlanders/polish legion would have more speed in melee etc.

Offline Elitesniperz

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 09:24:31 pm »
Im not sure if this belongs in here however I thought that as people are stabbed blood can be seen dripping down and if a move is "incorrectly" performed then the hat of the soldier is knocked off and the soldier must fight for the rest of the battle with no hat. Aswell as this the environment should impact what the uniform looks like after a battle so in a forest the uniform will become very dirty and in the desert it will become sandy

Offline George Al Ghul

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Offline Soladn

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 11:08:31 am »
I'm so glad, that this game gives us the possibility to decide things <3

Offline imonoz

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 02:43:01 am »
I would like to see something more added towards blocking rather than what we have in the M&B franchise currently. I'm thinking of something similar to what Pugglesworth mentioned but have it so if you time your block well, as it works in real life how bringing power with your sword to block your opponent, would enable you to strike back like we're seeing in M&B. If you don't time it well however, as if you hold it up for too long/early you will get a swift stun, significant enough that you won't have the time to strike back (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and immediately strikes again) and you will have to once again block only to look for that well timed block which won't stun you, so you can finally swing back and be the agressor. I think this would look more realistic and would probably also be more fun. M&B melee battles is silly in the way that the opponents take turns to swing at each other, block-swing-block-swing without any penalty or award for a "good block".

And no, I'm not refeering to parrying, that however should also be in the game to catch your opponent of guard, like in M&B.

Offline GovernerPancake

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 03:37:49 pm »
Although not many people like it, i think chambering (and block chambering maybe) like you have in M&B is good to have. Although it's not that popular because of how it works, it adds another dimension to the game beyond attacking and blocking. It allows players that have mastered those to go further into developing their skill and make sure that there's always more play styles and things that could catch you out in a fight.

Online CyanKeso

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 09:24:33 pm »
Although not many people like it, i think chambering (and block chambering maybe) like you have in M&B is good to have. Although it's not that popular because of how it works, it adds another dimension to the game beyond attacking and blocking. It allows players that have mastered those to go further into developing their skill and make sure that there's always more play styles and things that could catch you out in a fight.
I would like to see something more added towards blocking rather than what we have in the M&B franchise currently. I'm thinking of something similar to what Pugglesworth mentioned but have it so if you time your block well, as it works in real life how bringing power with your sword to block your opponent, would enable you to strike back like we're seeing in M&B. If you don't time it well however, as if you hold it up for too long/early you will get a swift stun, significant enough that you won't have the time to strike back (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and immediately strikes again) and you will have to once again block only to look for that well timed block which won't stun you, so you can finally swing back and be the agressor. I think this would look more realistic and would probably also be more fun. M&B melee battles is silly in the way that the opponents take turns to swing at each other, block-swing-block-swing without any penalty or award for a "good block".

And no, I'm not refeering to parrying, that however should also be in the game to catch your opponent of guard, like in M&B.
Only suggestion/idea I have is not to copy/use/not rely on any M&B. We have "shit" ton of threads, posts like: gib mi mant end bleyd or M&B wasn't bad at all so let's use this or that solution.
Examples:
Will we lose our ability to fire our muskets if we go into the water like in.... NW?
This topic
The bad thing is 99% players on this forum are/were playing NW and mostly due to force of habit they want to have same gameplay here in Holdfast. Quick reminder of what we have in NW:
1. Chambers
2. Spinning/Rotations for speed bonus to attack.
3. "Feints" changing attack directions at light speed.By feinting you are abusing the mechanic which enables you to block in the middle of a stab
4. 2 sides for musket attack.
5. Using high mouse speed to get behind an opponent and stab in the back.
Now some about history:
1. The majority of bayonet attacks ended up with one side fleeing before any contact was made. There were bayonet attacks and charges but most of them wasn't a hand to hand cold steel combat. Mostly those were individual 1v1 or small group fights between soldiers than whole regiments.
2. Wounds made by sometimes up to 50cm !! bayonets weren't sliced but puncture. It's more than enough to pierce heart or other vital organs.
According to another sample taken (in 1762) in Invalides;
- 69 % of the wounded were wounded by musket balls
- 14 % by sabers
- 13 % by artillery
- 2 % by bayonets
It doesn't say that bayonets weren't used but they did not cause most of the disabilites. Why ? Because mostly those were lethal wounds ( pierced guts etc. [internal bleeding] ) or easy to heal like stabbed hand or leg ( Without hitting the artery ). Why 69% muskets? They were crushing bones, destroying whole parts of organs and bringing inside body material which caused infection. 3/4 Invalides had amputated limbs due to broken bones. 1 good stab will end opponents life.
3. Melee manuals show that officers from mostly upper class were taught how to fight duels not "Group Fights". Here you have 2 duels: 1st spades 2nd sabers form the most accurate movie about duels in 19th century.


4. In hand to hand combat soldiers were using any kind of weapon. move that could kill the enemy. Puncture strikes, butt bashes ( butt of the musket ) slices etc.
5. Most of the bayonet stabs were reflected not blocked ( you used your own musket to change the direction of enemies stab away from you and use his mass to stab him in the guts ), slices from Sabre briquets, swords or rifle/musket swings were blocked.

Not going to sticky this but thanks for posting it. While some of us did have input into the development of NW Holdfast and Anvil Studios are wholly independent entities. The game will be it's own animal and hopefully something fresh and enjoyable building on what we already know to work.
I hope they will make this historically accurate/realistic so you won't be still fighting with internal bleeding.
I totally agree with rutger

Offline NiPhix

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 09:26:13 pm »
Chambers, blockchambers, kickblocks, kicks, holds, feints. Yes pls.

Online CyanKeso

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2017, 09:28:42 pm »
Chambers, blockchambers, kickblocks, kicks, holds, feints. Yes pls.
And maybe french fries with diet coke to this meal?

Offline NiPhix

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Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 09:29:35 pm »
That doesn't sound all too bad. :P