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[Poll] What is your stance according to what the thread suggested? [Please read before vote]

*Tweaks* I wrote about, just under here.
as the reload is currently.
faster...

Author Topic: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*  (Read 658 times)

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Online Brock

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Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« on: September 19, 2017, 10:20:56 pm »
Hello everyone, I have seen the game play of the game already, and I had some suggestions and tweaks when it comes to the musket its self. I find the reload a tad short, realistically & in game. Realistically 15 seconds would be a very difficult thing to achieve with reloading a muzzle loader. I think for a games proper mechanics 15 seconds is a nice sweet spot. 12 however is a little short, and the shorter time frames are given for various in game mechanics the more, it comes to being classified under "arcade". Also makes general gameplay faster and more unfun. Another being the incredibly fast cannon reload. I would agree that there should be a disadvantage to reloading your arm, what ever it is you are doing when you are crouching, considering you have an advantage with cover or yourself just being a smaller target. To players minds this comes up, 'if crouching is the exact same as standing, why would I stand at all and be a bigger target?' This is the thinking you do not want to give players AGS. Reload when your crouching should slow your reload to 20 seconds per shot. Keep in mind this is still 3 rounds a minute which is still a LOT. This way Attackers dont always have to rely on melee for taking any kind of fortification, which gets boring and repetitive. If you the defender have a choice to increase your fire rate with standing but risk getting killed, it brings in more strategic thinking upon commander and gives the game more choices and makes it actually more exiting and full. If you introduce crouching and walking, reload speed should be increased to 22-24 seconds, again to discourage skirmish type gameplay with regular units. Perhaps playing as a light or rifle unit could decrease the penalties to again, suit the unit better and help gameplay feature come alive. Considering well, the units were historically trained for that, and Line infantry was not. Reloading your gun when your walking should increase the reload from 15 to 17-19 seconds so you dont have people purposefully running around and spinning to avoid getting shot at. Thats just stupid. And prone, if at all should only be a skill available to the rifle class if anything. Thats another page in the book. Also, the reload animation looks clunky and unpolished. when the time comes it should look something like this. I know you have seen this, and while it not being the best example, it is done realistically. When your pulling our your ramrod from the pipes, the pipes should be facing toward you when your pulling the rammer out. Im also hoping we will see regular shoulder arms when they start doing some major work on the animations.



Thanks and good day to y'all.

EDIT: here are some things I gathered on the web to whom it may concern.







this is just some of it. to prove a point.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 07:04:07 pm by Brock »

Offline TooL69

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 04:05:55 pm »
Increasing the recharge time will break the gameplay. There will be even more children fighting melee. They are incredibly annoying !!
Yes! This game is arcade. In the game there are no aspects that make it a simulator or historically authentic!
Muskets must shoot quickly, so that it's fun and that annoying children waving bayonets do not bother.
If historically the musket could be recharged in 7-10 seconds, then in the game this time should be reduced to 5-7 seconds.






Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 05:22:38 pm »
Increasing the recharge time will break the gameplay. There will be even more children fighting melee. They are incredibly annoying !!
Yes! This game is arcade. In the game there are no aspects that make it a simulator or historically authentic!
Muskets must shoot quickly, so that it's fun and that annoying children waving bayonets do not bother.
If historically the musket could be recharged in 7-10 seconds, then in the game this time should be reduced to 5-7 seconds.





You are historically and grammatically incorrect.

I advise you do not make assumptions about things you have no idea about. A 15 second reload is very quick and is very difficult to do actually. Your version of this system would break the game and what its about.

This is a one of a kind game, and I would be happy if it stayed that way to say so crossly.

Two bad examples of your opinion is hardly explanitory of your view on the game unfortunatly.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 05:33:13 pm by Brock »

Offline TooL69

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 07:36:04 pm »
Increasing the recharge time will break the gameplay. There will be even more children fighting melee. They are incredibly annoying !!
Yes! This game is arcade. In the game there are no aspects that make it a simulator or historically authentic!
Muskets must shoot quickly, so that it's fun and that annoying children waving bayonets do not bother.
If historically the musket could be recharged in 7-10 seconds, then in the game this time should be reduced to 5-7 seconds.





You are historically and grammatically incorrect.

I advise you do not make assumptions about things you have no idea about. A 15 second reload is very quick and is very difficult to do actually. Your version of this system would break the game and what its about.

This is a one of a kind game, and I would be happy if it stayed that way to say so crossly.

Two bad examples of your opinion is hardly explanitory of your view on the game unfortunatly.

And you are strange ...
Talk about historical certainty, but at the same time you want to keep the game "balance" (in fact, this is an imbalance).
I have experience playing in battle ground 2, blackwake, NW. By this, I perfectly understand what is needed for an adequate balance of games.
What is a game balance? This is when all weapons are equally effective in the game world and has its strengths and weaknesses applicable in different situations! Do you understand?
At this point in Holdfast melee weapons are superior to firearms. Is this according to your adequate balance? Is this historically yours?
I gave you the iron arguments that you can recharge the musket in 10 seconds and it's 100% historic!
In the game framework, given all the conventions of the gameplay, the recharge time can be done even faster. After all, the game does not take into account fatigue, fear, stress. Players are not afraid to die.

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 07:51:00 pm »
Tap loading is not an accurate historical representation of how firearms were loaded in the day. And for a good reason. Tab loading was not used to the fact that they did not manufacture different calibers of rounds for each soilder. Tap loading is a mere representation that it IS possible to do with a smaller caliber. If you tried to tap load with the caliber you were supposed to fire, you would run into some problems. In fact, to many to list here. If you fire the gun with the bullet not down the bottom of the barrel, thats when the problem starts. Anyway to explain to you because you say you know things in this era, tap loading was too innacurate, dangerous, and unreliable to be standerdised within any army of the napoleonic wars.

Also it is impossible to load your musket faster then 10 seconds with a round. Another thing you are false about. Its hard enough to do 15 seconds. Believe the guy that actually fired a musket before.

And i figure where your suggestion came from, since you played battlegrounds 2.

I am also inclined to belive you have no knowledge of game design.

About your last statement, you would be surprised there is actually a really good and fun way of making players "break" or "retreat"  and its more easy to implement then you think. More about that soon.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:00:16 pm by Brock »

Offline TooL69

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 08:15:37 pm »
Tap loading is not an accurate historical representation of how firearms were loaded in the day. And for a good reason. Tab loading was not used to the fact that they did not manufacture different calibers of rounds for each soilder. Tap loading is a mere representation that it IS possible to do with a smaller caliber. If you tried to tap load with the caliber you were supposed to fire, you would run into some problems. In fact, to many to list here. If you fire the gun with the bullet not down the bottom of the barrel, thats when the problem starts. Anyway to explain to you because you say you know things in this era, tap loading was too innacurate, dangerous, and unreliable to be standerdised within any army of the napoleonic wars.


And i figure where your suggestion came from, since you played battlegrounds 2.

I am also inclined to belive you have no knowledge of game design.

About your last statement, you would be surprised there is actually a really good and fun way of making players "break" or "retreat"  and its more easy to implement then you think. More about that soon.

You ignore uncomfortable facts and you do not know the technical side of the question.
All muskets fired bullets of smaller caliber! It is a fact. And you did not know?
Experienced soldiers enjoyed using it to quickly recharge the musket, despite the fact that it was not according to the rules.

Also.
And so they did around the world where they used firearms.
A good example of this is the Maori Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Vars
The best frontier shooter about which legends go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Wetzel

Quote
Also it is impossible to load your musket faster then 10 seconds with a round. Another thing you are false about. Its hard enough to do 15 seconds. Believe the guy that actually fired a musket before.

Do not you believe your eyes?

Offline Hughes

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 08:57:27 pm »
"Do not you believe your eyes?"

Referring to the matchlock? --Do you really believe they're firing with ball while the crowd watches 10 meters away?

Buddy tap-loaded the brown bess twice under 50 seconds, 46?

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 09:56:55 pm »
Tap loading is not an accurate historical representation of how firearms were loaded in the day. And for a good reason. Tab loading was not used to the fact that they did not manufacture different calibers of rounds for each soilder. Tap loading is a mere representation that it IS possible to do with a smaller caliber. If you tried to tap load with the caliber you were supposed to fire, you would run into some problems. In fact, to many to list here. If you fire the gun with the bullet not down the bottom of the barrel, thats when the problem starts. Anyway to explain to you because you say you know things in this era, tap loading was too innacurate, dangerous, and unreliable to be standerdised within any army of the napoleonic wars.


And i figure where your suggestion came from, since you played battlegrounds 2.

I am also inclined to believe you have no knowledge of game design.

About your last statement, you would be surprised there is actually a really good and fun way of making players "break" or "retreat"  and its more easy to implement then you think. More about that soon.

You ignore uncomfortable facts and you do not know the technical side of the question.
All muskets fired bullets of smaller caliber! It is a fact. And you did not know?
Experienced soldiers enjoyed using it to quickly recharge the musket, despite the fact that it was not according to the rules.

Also.
And so they did around the world where they used firearms.
A good example of this is the Maori Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Vars
The best frontier shooter about which legends go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Wetzel

Quote
Also it is impossible to load your musket faster then 10 seconds with a round. Another thing you are false about. Its hard enough to do 15 seconds. Believe the guy that actually fired a musket before.

Do not you believe your eyes?

Good lord.

Yes. Obviously the bullet has to be smaller to go in any barrel. You need a different kind of bullet, a smaller one to tap load. you cant use a caliber that has resistance in the barrel because it will not even leave the muzzle! Thats why ramrods were invented!

And dont be showing me some Indian nation, like they would add it.

I ignore uncomfortable facts. Funny. You ignore grammer. Consider me saying "standardized army within Napoleonic wars". I and many would not account this "Maori Indians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Vars" You would think there is a reason empires did not use this "tactic".

And yes, I thought it would be obvious enough that I meant 'with the ramrod' in that sentence that you do not seem to understand. What, did I think all bullets are fired of a bigger caliber that can fit in the barrel?! Man, take a look and read everything again. Your first link is also non existent.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 10:02:56 pm by Brock »

Offline TomaHawkAU

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 10:03:01 pm »
Back on topic, I agree with the initial post, I think a longer reload would create a reason to form lines instead of skirmish since you have to rely on your buddy next to you if someone pops there head over the hill while your reloading, I also agree that skirmishers should have less penalties but still some for things like crouch loading and loading while moving, when it comes to melee, yes a longer reload means that in public play melee will be far more common but in the linebattle melee is too unpredictable (as in you don't know if your going to die and how many men you might lose) that it is its own discouragement.

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 10:08:45 pm »
Back on topic, I agree with the initial post, I think a longer reload would create a reason to form lines instead of skirmish since you have to rely on your buddy next to you if someone pops there head over the hill while your reloading, I also agree that skirmishers should have less penalties but still some for things like crouch loading and loading while moving, when it comes to melee, yes a longer reload means that in public play melee will be far more common but in the linebattle melee is too unpredictable (as in you don't know if your going to die and how many men you might lose) that it is its own discouragement.

Exactly. If you dont want to melee and you preffer shooting, you always have cover and you are never forced into melee unless you want to. If you always keep your distance you will be fine, if thats your play style.

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 11:25:51 pm »
:Updated, we have a poll now!  :D

Offline TooL69

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 04:58:15 pm »
Back on topic, I agree with the initial post, I think a longer reload would create a reason to form lines instead of skirmish since you have to rely on your buddy next to you if someone pops there head over the hill while your reloading, I also agree that skirmishers should have less penalties but still some for things like crouch loading and loading while moving, when it comes to melee, yes a longer reload means that in public play melee will be far more common but in the linebattle melee is too unpredictable (as in you don't know if your going to die and how many men you might lose) that it is its own discouragement.

Exactly. If you dont want to melee and you preffer shooting, you always have cover and you are never forced into melee unless you want to. If you always keep your distance you will be fine, if thats your play style.

Do you describe your fantasies? Everything will be different, I assure you.

If the firearms become even more useless then the game will turn into a medieval battle, in which Ololo-Rembo will run and cut out all whom they see.

Offline TooL69

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 05:05:12 pm »
"Do not you believe your eyes?"

Referring to the matchlock? --Do you really believe they're firing with ball while the crowd watches 10 meters away?

Buddy tap-loaded the brown bess twice under 50 seconds, 46?

You can not use a timer?

0:05 - 0:15
0:19 - 0:30

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 05:05:37 pm »
Back on topic, I agree with the initial post, I think a longer reload would create a reason to form lines instead of skirmish since you have to rely on your buddy next to you if someone pops there head over the hill while your reloading, I also agree that skirmishers should have less penalties but still some for things like crouch loading and loading while moving, when it comes to melee, yes a longer reload means that in public play melee will be far more common but in the linebattle melee is too unpredictable (as in you don't know if your going to die and how many men you might lose) that it is its own discouragement.

Exactly. If you dont want to melee and you preffer shooting, you always have cover and you are never forced into melee unless you want to. If you always keep your distance you will be fine, if thats your play style.

Do you describe your fantasies? Everything will be different, I assure you.

If the firearms become even more useless then the game will turn into a medieval battle, in which Ololo-Rembo will run and cut out all whom they see.

You simply have no concept of game design, realisim, or history. Your concept of a seven second reload, repeatedly denied, still does not seem to change your stance on a now irrelavent subject for you.

Any other irrelavent topic for you that you want to talk about?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 05:07:42 pm by Brock »

Online Brock

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Re: Reload animation and general gameplay *tweaks*
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 06:55:38 pm »
Bump!