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Author Topic: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.  (Read 255 times)

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Offline theamazingjex

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Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« on: November 28, 2017, 01:59:39 am »
A tiny number of players going out and playing rambo on the defense will drain their entire teams pool in about half the round.  The ruins map for instance is basically the perfect defense at A but you still have people spawn at B.  Because they respawn as quickly as they die, they're up to double digit death counts before the round is even halfway over.  In my last game I spent 10 minutes waiting around at A twiddling my thumbs while the rambos depleted all the reinforcements.  Then after all the reinforcements were gone, I got hit by a stray rifle bullet and was out of the game.  It's a map that honestly should be impossible for the attackers to win on but I've never seen the defenders win on a reasonably full server.

I think the simple solution to this would be to put a 90 second timer in between spawns.  So if you spawn and immediately charge the enemy to die within 10 seconds, you have to wait 80 more seconds before you do it again.  That way if some people want to go play rambo, they will only be able to drain their team of 12 tickets over the course of the game.  It could also create a way for the attackers to win without depleting the defenders reinforcements.

Edit: To clarify, I only want the spawn cooldown for defenders.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 04:36:54 pm by theamazingjex »

Offline theamazingjex

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 02:48:32 am »


^As a further illustration of the problem.  Look at the three French players with the most deaths here.  Between them they have 96 deaths when the French reinforcements have been depleted.  The entire French team at this point have 238 deaths.  That's 40% of the reinforcements on the team being used up by just 3 players.  Is it any wonder that the French run out of reinforcements every game?  One of these three guys is dying every 8 seconds.  It would just take 5 players like this to drain the entire French pool even if no other French player died once.

And when you point out to them that they are hurting their team, they brag about how many kills they have...

Online Patient Fodder

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 11:10:49 am »
So because some individuals treat the mode as TDM, you want the besieging team to suffer from defence's lack of tactical ability and selfish gameplay?

I have to disagree.
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O.C. ca 1630

Offline Intel Guardian

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 11:51:07 am »
He's asking for the defending team to have their respawns stretched, not the attackers'.

Online Patient Fodder

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 04:07:39 pm »
He's asking for the defending team to have their respawns stretched, not the attackers'.

If that is the case, I stand slightly corrected!

It still punishes 60 players on their own side for the actions of a few however. And the timer would bring other problems iwith it. e.g. So one does not spawn in the last minute anymore if there are enough tickets? Or you just wait some more if you get a canonball on your head when you just took your first step? On the attacker side there are plenty of game losing actions as well.

Keeping the above in mind, I read it as a timer for spawns on both sides, as I saw no specification mentioned.

.........................     I think the simple solution to this would be to put a 90 second timer in between spawns.  So if you spawn and immediately charge the enemy to die within 10 seconds, you have to wait 80 more seconds before you do it again.  That way if some people want to go play rambo, they will only be able to drain their team of 12 tickets over the course of the game.  It could also create a way for the attackers to win without depleting the defenders reinforcements.

So I still say no to the suggestion.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 04:09:53 pm by Patient Fodder »
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Offline theamazingjex

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 04:26:37 pm »
It still punishes 60 players on their own side for the actions of a few however.

No, it's HELPING the 60 players by making it so a handful of rambos can't screw them.  Literally every single game of siege I've played (about 6 or 7) has ended with the defenders having their tickets run out.  The chance of the attackers taking the cap without doing that are effectively nil.

He's asking for the defending team to have their respawns stretched, not the attackers'.

Yes.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 04:37:58 pm by theamazingjex »

Offline Intel Guardian

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 04:41:20 pm »
Your spawn time should probably increase the more you die.

Online Patient Fodder

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 06:16:21 pm »
It still punishes 60 players on their own side for the actions of a few however.

No, it's HELPING the 60 players by making it so a handful of rambos can't screw them.  Literally every single game of siege I've played (about 6 or 7) has ended with the defenders having their tickets run out.  The chance of the attackers taking the cap without doing that are effectively nil.

He's asking for the defending team to have their respawns stretched, not the attackers'.

Yes.

As I am always on the attacking side (sadly), I can't comment too much on the defender experience. I understand the frustration, but, besides that some roles will certainly die more often and would suffer more heavily, and because of the examples I gave before, I just do not agree with you.

But maybe it is something which can be built in to have it set as the server admin pleases (respawn = x seconds).
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Offline theamazingjex

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 11:34:10 pm »
but, besides that some roles will certainly die more often

Nah, there were plenty of other people playing line infantry who had like 4 deaths, not 30.

Your spawn time should probably increase the more you die.

I think a system like that would be a bit opaque and hard to balance.  I think a 90 second cooldown is something that the vast majority of players will only see occasionally.  That's the intent, it's not something for all the players, it's for the small minority who dont understand how siege mode works.

Online Patient Fodder

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 10:41:29 am »
You actually think that the riflemen class players die as often on average as other class players?


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Offline Rockerfish

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 12:33:51 am »
Your spawn time should probably increase the more you die.

Or defending team spawn time is based on how far they were from a spawn when they died. This way people who stay at the obj wont get hit by more spawning time.
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Offline WaylanderGR

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 08:41:19 pm »
give something like 5 lives to every defender, or divise the tickets to every defender
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Online Patient Fodder

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 11:30:18 am »
give something like 5 lives to every defender, or divise the tickets to every defender

If you have an average of 75 players on each side, you either come up short with 5x75= 375 tickets, or you are going to have give all players 11 ish tickets. And if someone has 4 tickets left and is last man standing, how would that work?

Not bashing just pondering.
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Offline theamazingjex

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Re: Shared spawn pool ruins siege mode.
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 06:21:40 pm »
give something like 5 lives to every defender, or divise the tickets to every defender

That's what they do in NW, but it has a few problems.  When players run out of tickets they had nothing to do but sit around or quit so you have a churn of players joining and leaving, screwing up the math.  The system works alright but I think a respawn timer would be an improvement.