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Author Topic: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast  (Read 1610 times)

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Offline Cage

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♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« on: August 28, 2017, 06:32:42 pm »
Although Cavalry will not be present in early access at this current stage, this makes it even more important that it can become as big as it did in NW by being as fun and skillful as possible. Therefore, with help from Zahari, I've come up with a few things that I would like to see put into Holdfast cavalry:

  • Directional Combat system: Much like in NW, it would be ideal for cavalry to have the ability to move their sword higher and lower with the 4 combat directions. This means timing and ranges can be perfected to give cavalry that easy to learn, hard to master feel to it.
  • Balancing Classes: In NW, heavy cavalry is too maneuverable and has not got enough health (as the armour would suggest). In contrast, light cavalry is perhaps too tanky and not as maneuverable. Balancing needs to happen to make them both more accurate so hussars are actually light and heavies are actually heavy.
  • Bumping: Linking to the above point, a heavy horse should do more damage with a horse bump then a light horse and bumping power needs to be more varied with the speed you're going. This could make its strategy more dynamic.
  • Competition: To make competitive 1v1s as fair as possible, all the classes must be balanced. Whether that's British heavy cavalry vs French heavy cavalry, or a mixture of the two. It would be a shame to see a class just too under-powered to be played well competitively.
  • Swords: A feature that worked well in NW was the balance with swords so that a hussar sword was faster and shorter whilst the heavy sword dealt more damage, was slower and had greater range. This meant that no one sword was preferable but depended on one's class and style of play. This is definitely something that should be kept in mind. To make swords more realistic, cavalry should be dying in 1-2 sword hits regardless of speed. This would be a refreshing change to the tank from sword swings, which is especially apparent in dismounted duels.
  • Horses in General: Horses should be kept simple. This means no stamina mechanic and simple WASD controls. This furthers the easy to learn, hard to master feel which will keep it alive in the long term.
  • Lancers: Lancers, much like in NW, should have a slower horse than the hussar, but a faster horse than a heavy. A more medium horse. However, unlike in NW, lances should be less maneuverable due to its sheer range to keep the class balance.

    Please add your suggestions on things you agree/disagree with, what else should be added and ideas on other classes in order to make Holdfast cav as good as it can be.

Offline Eldar

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 06:43:15 pm »
It's a great idea! :D

Offline Lorucas

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 06:53:21 pm »
First of all, good idea Cage and Zahari!  ;D
Well, for me, Im agree with all u say. But I want to say something about lancers haha, ¿maybe a slower mounted attack? I mean, in NW lancers can do several attacks followed "very" fast in mi opinion (but its my opinion xD). Even so I like NW haha and I spent a lot of time on it :P

Offline Zahari

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 06:56:06 pm »
Oh yeee, its worth adding I think :) need to ask Cage about his opinion

Offline Deniolser

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 07:21:28 pm »
Good Idea :D
Deniolser

Offline Nurdbot

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 07:23:19 pm »
And make sure horses don't awkwardly stop each others momentum and rear is something that only requires a single key to press, thanks!

Offline Lorucas

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 07:28:27 pm »
And make sure horses don't awkwardly stop each others momentum and rear is something that only requires a single key to press, thanks!

If u are one with ur horse this things never happen  ;)

Offline Brock

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 08:12:09 pm »
Very nice thread.

Pin please!

Online Garrel

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 09:34:14 pm »
Good idea Cage. Liked the points given! ;D

Offline JerzyBurza

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 11:06:55 pm »
Good ideas, definitely pin it up pls

And please add a lanciers

Offline SwydeBarca

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2017, 01:55:39 am »
  • Horses in General: Horses should be kept simple. This means no stamina mechanic and simple WASD controls.
I'm sorry to be the first person to put negative feedback but I think horses and players should have stamina. It's relatively easy to implement, and it adds a lot of depth without too much complexity. It's also realistic, something that everyone here seem to enjoy, and causes the game to steer away from NW even more. It's a low-cost, high-efficiency mechanic, it should definitely be in the game IMO.

Otherwise all your suggestions are awesome (not that this one wasn't, I simply had another opinion ;) )

Offline Zahari

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 02:19:40 am »
If inf has stamina than horses can too but not other way around.

Offline Xethos

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 04:16:23 am »
  • Balancing Classes: In NW, heavy cavalry is too maneuverable and has not got enough health (as the armour would suggest). In contrast, light cavalry is perhaps too tanky and not as maneuverable. Balancing needs to happen to make them both more accurate so hussars are actually light and heavies are actually heavy.
Heavy horses are too maneuverable in NW? You can turn Greyhounds faster than a heavy horse. I'm pretty sure it was NW heavy horses that lost the race against Tom Thumb.

I don't think turning heavy cav into immobile turrets will help either historical accuracy or gameplay. As they are balanced in NW, heavy cav relies entirely on either having sufficient numbers to overwhelm enemies or having enemies make bad mistakes. The single most important asset for cav is maneuverability, whether fighting other cav or fighting infantry.

I would say I think hussars should be able to outmaneuver heavy cav, but not to the extant that they can runs laps around heavy cav as in NW. Heavy cav should be harder to kill in one hit, but it shouldn't be impossible. I'd like to see hussars less ridiculous in 1v1s against other kinds of cav, but be able to move across the battlefields more quickly, scouting and mopping up unsupported landwalkers (especially landwalkers without pointed sticks).

I'd have to see lance mechanics before commenting on how they should balance. NW lancing is hard to do, but a great lancer is almost unbeatable. Heavy cav doesn't have a prayer. Most of the problem is that the lance cannot be blocked. Even normal stabs will hit the horse if aimed properly, and no amount of downblocking stops it. A good start to balanced lancers is making sure that they can be in countered in some way more reliably than waiting for them to buck while another cav has the perfect angle to get him.
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04:25:13 - [Cup_of_Tea] Hey Xethos! I bet you're a gentleman of less than reputable quality!

Offline DaMonkey

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 04:46:58 am »
Xethos is correct in regards to heavy horse (or the Medium horse too, for that matter) and its maneuverability. You could mount a twinkie and have it spin doughnuts in a Kazakhstan parking lot easier than you'll get NW heavy horse to turn in any useful way.

Offline Zahari

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Re: ♞ Cavalry Suggestions for Holdfast
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2017, 11:14:13 am »
For sure, killing cuirassier with 1 hit in the chest should be impossible simple because of cuirass.