Anvil Game Studios

Holdfast: Nations At War => Game Discussion => Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Banjolord on January 15, 2018, 01:39:27 am

Title: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Banjolord on January 15, 2018, 01:39:27 am
It's come to my attention whilst playing Holdfast, reloading whilst moving has been a core element to the shooting in the game.
I commend the idea for it being added to the game due to the fact that it makes the shooting and combat feel more alive and dynamic.

It makes sense that if you are in a combat situation you wouldn't want to be static and remain still. However, in my opinion
the reload times should be increased whilst your character is moving or at least having the bar slowed down to balance any close quarters shooting.
It feels like it makes logical sense that if your character in real life was moving it would make the task at hand that he was doing slightly harder,
in turn balancing close quarters shooting. This could be used for all fire arms.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Saga on January 15, 2018, 02:22:51 am
I think that would come in really useful if you want to promote line combat in public linebattles, since it would prevent people from twitching about (A->D->A->D) which looks ridiculous.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Absol on January 15, 2018, 04:31:08 am
Good idea, I bet it's something that's coming.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Intel Guardian on January 15, 2018, 01:35:02 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Banjolord on January 15, 2018, 05:33:49 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
+1
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Absol on January 15, 2018, 08:27:57 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
+1
+1
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Lord Blakeney on January 15, 2018, 10:59:12 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
+1
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Saga on January 18, 2018, 08:25:15 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
+1
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Czechu on January 19, 2018, 12:21:57 pm
Reloading while moving should be largely nerfed for line infantry, and slightly nerfed for light infantry, since they were often trained to do this.
+1
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Rejenorst on January 20, 2018, 01:12:56 am
I am wondering if reloading while moving should be a class based feature? Ie: maybe have it be a core feature of the light infantry or grenadiers or guards etc. Not sure. This is just my own suggestion/question. At any rate would be cool to have it toggled via server options. Skirmishers (using muskets) would then have a massive distinction in terms of their class.

In regards to historical accuracy or ability; The Prussians for example (according to 1st hand accounts reloaded on the march at the battle of Jena http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6fpu7  11:30.

The Prussian army was heavily drilled though. But their marching and disciplined formations are summarized in this quote:

Quote
As has been clearly demonstrated, not only was Prussian senior leadership deficient, but Prussian training and tactics were antiquated.  As Petre so aptly states

‘The Prussian attacks on Vierzehnheiligen were a good example of the impossibility of succeeding with the parade ground tactics of the Seven Years’ War against the new tactics of the French.  The unhappy Prussians, attempting solemnly to form line before opening fire, were decimated by the fire of the French, ensconced behind the walls of the village and the gardens, or hidden in the furrows of the potato fields.’  Von der Goltz goes even further, stating that ‘The fatal method of that epoch was to halt and form within the zone of the enemy’s effective fire, forming line in order to act by the regulation fire of masses.’

Von Freytag-Loringhoven amplifies the problem in that

‘The Prussian infantry at one time took the Frederician maxim of marching boldly upon the enemy too literally, and insisted that skirmishing is the mark of a coward.  It learned better in 1806.’
Source: http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/battles/c_prussianlight3a.html


Nerfing it for line infantry and having skirmishers be able to reload faster on the move is also a pretty damn good idea and probably preferable.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Rivet on January 20, 2018, 09:10:35 am
I do not know how in other armies but in French there was not much difference in combat tactics between the infantry regiments and the light infantry regiments. After 1805 these differences fade-out. If in French rooster you want to have a true light infantry unit you must add Voltigeur, especially if HF spins around 1809, then I could explain myself that voltigeur who fight in skirmish line, or behind a tree or a house, can move and reload in this same time. Otherwise this does not make sense, because realoding while moving is total nonsense.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Rejenorst on January 20, 2018, 10:34:33 am
If in French rooster you want to have a true light infantry unit you must add Voltigeur, especially if HF spins around 1809, then I could explain myself that voltigeur who fight in skirmish line, or behind a tree or a house, can move and reload in this same time . Otherwise this does not make sense, because realoding while moving is total nonsense.

Just to clarify: Your saying they can reload when moving around cover but not while in skirmisher formation due to it not being part of their tactics?

The only source I have is the one I posted which was a first hand account from a Prussian that the line infantry reloaded while marching towards the enemy. I don't know about the French as I am not sure what their drills where. Reloading while marching is not impossible though. It can even be done on the run if your experienced enough but again I don't know if it was common and for what armies other than the Prussians:

Spoiler
[close]

For the most part I assume most Line Infantry would halt, fire, reload, advance etc.

Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Rivet on January 20, 2018, 11:10:25 am
Realoding while moving have sens for me only when you fight in skirmish. When you can hide, and move from the cover to the cover, in line formation it's really strange. I considere that realoding while moving is a negation of battle tactics of the line troops. I read a few works, books on this subject and none of them mentioned it.

I am not saying that it is not impossible.


I'll just add that, in this video this musket looks smaller than those used in Napoleonic Wars also it must be remembered that the man of those times was statistically lower. So all the "acrobatics" with a musket were harder for them.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Saga on March 06, 2018, 05:27:45 am
any more discussion for this?
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Takerith on March 06, 2018, 11:51:57 am
I think reloading while moving should definitely be allowed for all classes. One thing I hated about NW's combat and that I'd love to see be fixed in Holdfast is how static the lines could be. There was never much reason to move from a position other than being forced out (by artillery or skirmishers) or simple boredom. If a line was to advance straight at an enemy line in NW, the static line would be constantly firing and reloading, while the advancing line would be giving up firing time simply because they're taking the initiative.

While it's realistic and accurate that an advancing unit would have a disadvantage against a static one, in a single-life game mode there's no real incentive for one line to try and attack another. In advancing toward an enemy line, you are taking casualties just so that you can be a bit closer to the enemy, which doesn't provide any advantages that the enemy doesn't also get. Letting lines reload while moving gives an incentive to be less static and actually try and engage the enemy in a way that isn't just trying for lucky shots at 200+ metres.

Now, I'd still like for the current standard for organised events to be some kind of map control mode to further discourage static lines, but for now we only have the current Army Assault mode, so moving and reloading is the best we have.
Title: Re: Nerfing reloading whilst moving.
Post by: Samurai on March 06, 2018, 02:13:44 pm
I think reloading on the move is fine where it's at. It baits people into reloading in the open making them easy targets. I would also welcome it as a toggle in the server settings, as it's against the rules to reload on the move in most line battles.