Anvil Game Studios

Holdfast: Nations At War => Game Discussion => Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Getty on May 26, 2017, 11:45:35 am

Title: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on May 26, 2017, 11:45:35 am
Hey guys, we've been testing the melee and before we decided to further explore certain ways we could improve on it.  We decided to look for specific idea's/concepts you guys may want to implement, for example I had an idea tonight that we could possible put in a shove type attack with some differences that would replace kicking.

Everyone's feedback would be appreciated as we know its an important area of the game for many players.

I would just like to clarify that all of these are suggestions and nothing is set in stone, so don't necessarily expect these features to be ready for early access.

I've done a fair amount of testing on the game, and I think its time we got some outside feedback before we implemented anything too drastic. So feedback would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Miller on May 26, 2017, 12:25:48 pm
Making the distance between you and the player that hits you matter. So if you only get stabbed with the like the 10 mm of the weapon it does less damage then when the entire bayonets penetrates you. Thats a idea I have.


Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Exodus on May 26, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
Just a suggestion while thinking of ideas. The possible ability to charge like Battlefield 1, demonstrated here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYYJNoLraqo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3iLOIjWN3w
Like battlefield 1, this charge makes you faster however slower after the charge finishes. Implementing this would mean more vulnerability for those who are charging as it makes them slower to get out of the combat zone.

To make this not as lethal and a one hit kill with 50 people all charging with the speed as shown, you can still block the charge. This will also force more team play and strategy, instead of just shooting at the enemy, you might want to wait for them to get closer and charge, then you can have shots remaining.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Nurdbot on May 26, 2017, 05:33:09 pm
It would be nice if bayonets, musket butts and swords all had their own niches to fill in close combat. Swords should give you more flexibility but perhaps require more patince and skill, whilst using either end of the musket is a more simplified brutal choice when you need to take something down in a hurry?

Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Pugglesworth on May 28, 2017, 07:47:43 am
I had an idea tonight that we could possible put in a shove type attack with some differences that would replace kicking.

Intriguing, could you elaborate on this a bit? I do think that there should be some kind of high risk/high reward move that will keep melee from becoming too monotonous. Not decisive, but no cheap gimmick either. And its use should definitely depend on skill, since that is what melee is all about.

Here is a collection of ideas I've come up with and borrowed from elsewhere (mostly borrowed):

Parry/"Perfect" Block - Block (or attack) at the precise time and the enemy will be knocked off balance or something like that; too early and it's just a normal block, too late and you get hit. It could also be separated from the blocking and attacking functions (e.g. parry button), so that being too early as well as too late could prove fatal.
This is kinda like M&B's chambering bug/feature.

Dodging - A quick sidestep or hop to get out of the way, but you can't block or attack while doing so.
If you can dodge a wrench, well you will probably still not be able to dodge a cannon ball. Could probably use some ducks, dips, and dives as well.

Feint - A quick little jab which has no effect but is intended to distract the opponent.
Not sure if this would have any use at all, since it's already kind of possible to do this by canceling an attack with the block button.

Heavy/Power Attack - Swing harder for extra damage, and possibly break someone's block or stagger them, though it should be reasonably avoidable, even taking long enough to execute that someone could fit in a normal attack during the windup.
This could make bayonet battles interesting if it were to become the only way to score a 1-hit kill (excepting the damage boost conferred when the officer calls a charge).

Sprinting - Sometimes it helps to be just that much faster. Like in the BF1 example above, a sprinting attack can be lethal but hard to aim. You could also sprint to get to a teammate in time to help them. Maybe limited to skirmishers and light infantry.
I would hope not to see people sprinting around like coke-addicted COD fanboys.

Stamina - Every physical action costs stamina, the more strength and agility it requires, the more stamina it uses. When the player is tired, the most strenuous activities, such as heavy attacks, sprinting, dodging, etc. will become unusable. When the player is completely winded, they will be slowed to a crawl, attacks will do less damage, and blocks will be less effective (ex. always get staggered or even take damage on a successful block). Stamina regenerates the fastest while sitting, and slowly while marching. Musicians could give a stamina regen boost. Medics could load their needle shooters with adrenaline and fire at teammates to give them a stamina boost, or at enemies to give them lethal adrenal gland ruptures (just kidding).
Not so sure if this would make fights end quicker because everyone gets winded and blocking becomes useless, or if it would make them take longer because everyone would stop to rest before fighting and be more hesitant to attack during a melee (to counter this, the blocker could lose more stamina than the attacker, and holding blocks could also drain stamina over time.) Could also help against spamming and spin-to-win. This could be a "hardcore mode" feature or server option.

Note when I say possibly I'm not indicating probability, excessive RNG is bad for competitive play since even the most skillful players can be defeated by sheer bad luck. Melee should be won by skillful play, not by luck and overpowered moves. The system should also be kept as simple as possible, and not overloaded with cheap gimmicks. Not sure what the community agrees on, but this is what I think.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Jägermeister on June 21, 2017, 02:50:06 am
Well the melee system would be dependable to units like Guard units would have more damage in melee combat, highlanders/polish legion would have more speed in melee etc.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Elitesniperz on June 29, 2017, 09:24:31 pm
Im not sure if this belongs in here however I thought that as people are stabbed blood can be seen dripping down and if a move is "incorrectly" performed then the hat of the soldier is knocked off and the soldier must fight for the rest of the battle with no hat. Aswell as this the environment should impact what the uniform looks like after a battle so in a forest the uniform will become very dirty and in the desert it will become sandy
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: George Al Ghul on July 07, 2017, 03:43:29 pm
I wrote them herehttp://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=906.0 (http://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=906.0)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Soladn on July 13, 2017, 11:08:31 am
I'm so glad, that this game gives us the possibility to decide things <3
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: imonoz on July 18, 2017, 02:43:01 am
I would like to see something more added towards blocking rather than what we have in the M&B franchise currently. I'm thinking of something similar to what Pugglesworth mentioned but have it so if you time your block well, as it works in real life how bringing power with your sword to block your opponent, would enable you to strike back like we're seeing in M&B. If you don't time it well however, as if you hold it up for too long/early you will get a swift stun, significant enough that you won't have the time to strike back (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and immediately strikes again) and you will have to once again block only to look for that well timed block which won't stun you, so you can finally swing back and be the agressor. I think this would look more realistic and would probably also be more fun. M&B melee battles is silly in the way that the opponents take turns to swing at each other, block-swing-block-swing without any penalty or award for a "good block".

And no, I'm not refeering to parrying, that however should also be in the game to catch your opponent of guard, like in M&B.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: GovernerPancake on July 24, 2017, 03:37:49 pm
Although not many people like it, i think chambering (and block chambering maybe) like you have in M&B is good to have. Although it's not that popular because of how it works, it adds another dimension to the game beyond attacking and blocking. It allows players that have mastered those to go further into developing their skill and make sure that there's always more play styles and things that could catch you out in a fight.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: CyanKeso on July 31, 2017, 09:24:33 pm
Although not many people like it, i think chambering (and block chambering maybe) like you have in M&B is good to have. Although it's not that popular because of how it works, it adds another dimension to the game beyond attacking and blocking. It allows players that have mastered those to go further into developing their skill and make sure that there's always more play styles and things that could catch you out in a fight.
I would like to see something more added towards blocking rather than what we have in the M&B franchise currently. I'm thinking of something similar to what Pugglesworth mentioned but have it so if you time your block well, as it works in real life how bringing power with your sword to block your opponent, would enable you to strike back like we're seeing in M&B. If you don't time it well however, as if you hold it up for too long/early you will get a swift stun, significant enough that you won't have the time to strike back (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and immediately strikes again) and you will have to once again block only to look for that well timed block which won't stun you, so you can finally swing back and be the agressor. I think this would look more realistic and would probably also be more fun. M&B melee battles is silly in the way that the opponents take turns to swing at each other, block-swing-block-swing without any penalty or award for a "good block".

And no, I'm not refeering to parrying, that however should also be in the game to catch your opponent of guard, like in M&B.
Only suggestion/idea I have is not to copy/use/not rely on any M&B. We have "shit" ton of threads, posts like: gib mi mant end bleyd or M&B wasn't bad at all so let's use this or that solution.
Examples:
Will we lose our ability to fire our muskets if we go into the water like in.... NW?
This topic  (http://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=105.0)
The bad thing is 99% players on this forum are/were playing NW and mostly due to force of habit they want to have same gameplay here in Holdfast. Quick reminder of what we have in NW:
1. Chambers
2. Spinning/Rotations for speed bonus to attack.
3. "Feints" changing attack directions at light speed.By feinting you are abusing the mechanic which enables you to block in the middle of a stab
4. 2 sides for musket attack.
5. Using high mouse speed to get behind an opponent and stab in the back.
Now some about history:
1. The majority of bayonet attacks ended up with one side fleeing before any contact was made. There were bayonet attacks and charges but most of them wasn't a hand to hand cold steel combat. Mostly those were individual 1v1 or small group fights between soldiers than whole regiments.
2. Wounds made by sometimes up to 50cm !! bayonets weren't sliced but puncture. It's more than enough to pierce heart or other vital organs.
According to another sample taken (in 1762) in Invalides;
- 69 % of the wounded were wounded by musket balls
- 14 % by sabers
- 13 % by artillery
- 2 % by bayonets
It doesn't say that bayonets weren't used but they did not cause most of the disabilites. Why ? Because mostly those were lethal wounds ( pierced guts etc. [internal bleeding] ) or easy to heal like stabbed hand or leg ( Without hitting the artery ). Why 69% muskets? They were crushing bones, destroying whole parts of organs and bringing inside body material which caused infection. 3/4 Invalides had amputated limbs due to broken bones. 1 good stab will end opponents life.
3. Melee manuals show that officers from mostly upper class were taught how to fight duels not "Group Fights". Here you have 2 duels: 1st spades 2nd sabers form the most accurate movie about duels in 19th century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhwIrONyEzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhwIrONyEzg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Fb0Y6uUSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Fb0Y6uUSw)
4. In hand to hand combat soldiers were using any kind of weapon. move that could kill the enemy. Puncture strikes, butt bashes ( butt of the musket ) slices etc.
5. Most of the bayonet stabs were reflected not blocked ( you used your own musket to change the direction of enemies stab away from you and use his mass to stab him in the guts ), slices from Sabre briquets, swords or rifle/musket swings were blocked.

Not going to sticky this but thanks for posting it. While some of us did have input into the development of NW Holdfast and Anvil Studios are wholly independent entities. The game will be it's own animal and hopefully something fresh and enjoyable building on what we already know to work.
I hope they will make this historically accurate/realistic so you won't be still fighting with internal bleeding.
I totally agree with rutger (http://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=144.0)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: DΛRKWΛVΣ on July 31, 2017, 09:26:13 pm
Chambers, blockchambers, kickblocks, kicks, holds, feints. Yes pls.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: CyanKeso on July 31, 2017, 09:28:42 pm
Chambers, blockchambers, kickblocks, kicks, holds, feints. Yes pls.
And maybe french fries with diet coke to this meal?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: DΛRKWΛVΣ on July 31, 2017, 09:29:35 pm
That doesn't sound all too bad. :P
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on July 31, 2017, 10:30:36 pm
Chambers, blockchambers, kickblocks, kicks, holds, feints. Yes pls.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: DΛRKWΛVΣ on July 31, 2017, 10:33:16 pm
Oh and please don't make it so it is related to pings. Would be nice if everyone could use those tricks not depending on the pings but on the actual skill.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Bluehawk on August 01, 2017, 02:45:27 am
All aspects of combat are effected by ping, especially anything requiring precise timing.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: VetroG on August 03, 2017, 08:51:08 am
Just make the melee different variety is the spice of life  :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 07, 2017, 01:54:15 am
I like directional combat but not NW directional combat. While fluid and mechanically sounds, there is so many autistic things you can do to kill an opponent that makes no fucking sense in a realistic stand point. Such as, feinting, spamming, ridiculous speed at which your character moves while in combat, blocking while in the air, etc
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 08, 2017, 03:57:52 pm
I like directional combat but not NW directional combat. While fluid and mechanically sounds, there is so many autistic things you can do to kill an opponent that makes no fucking sense in a realistic stand point. Such as, feinting, spamming, ridiculous speed at which your character moves while in combat, blocking while in the air, etc
That's what made NW so great imo, in terms of melee.

Obviously i don't mean the jump blocking and so on, and in terms of spamming in a high speed.

Good footwork helps my friend.

Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 08, 2017, 07:20:00 pm
I like directional combat but not NW directional combat. While fluid and mechanically sounds, there is so many autistic things you can do to kill an opponent that makes no fucking sense in a realistic stand point. Such as, feinting, spamming, ridiculous speed at which your character moves while in combat, blocking while in the air, etc
That's what made NW so great imo, in terms of melee.

Obviously i don't mean the jump blocking and so on, and in terms of spamming in a high speed.

Good footwork helps my friend.

NW melee is great. Just cut out the autism and you have perfection.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Frittentime on September 10, 2017, 04:35:34 pm
11 days till release not a single melee video  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Knightmare on September 10, 2017, 04:43:07 pm
Remove the chambers and the game is all good ))))))))))))
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Frittentime on September 10, 2017, 04:56:14 pm
Remove the chambers and the game is all good ))))))))))))
lol ?=????
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Garrel on September 11, 2017, 03:25:16 am
To have the same melee features as NW.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Brosse Gite on September 11, 2017, 10:28:49 pm
Although not many people like it, i think chambering (and block chambering maybe) like you have in M&B is good to have. Although it's not that popular because of how it works, it adds another dimension to the game beyond attacking and blocking. It allows players that have mastered those to go further into developing their skill and make sure that there's always more play styles and things that could catch you out in a fight.
I would like to see something more added towards blocking rather than what we have in the M&B franchise currently. I'm thinking of something similar to what Pugglesworth mentioned but have it so if you time your block well, as it works in real life how bringing power with your sword to block your opponent, would enable you to strike back like we're seeing in M&B. If you don't time it well however, as if you hold it up for too long/early you will get a swift stun, significant enough that you won't have the time to strike back (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and immediately strikes again) and you will have to once again block only to look for that well timed block which won't stun you, so you can finally swing back and be the agressor. I think this would look more realistic and would probably also be more fun. M&B melee battles is silly in the way that the opponents take turns to swing at each other, block-swing-block-swing without any penalty or award for a "good block".

And no, I'm not refeering to parrying, that however should also be in the game to catch your opponent of guard, like in M&B.
Only suggestion/idea I have is not to copy/use/not rely on any M&B. We have "shit" ton of threads, posts like: gib mi mant end bleyd or M&B wasn't bad at all so let's use this or that solution.
Examples:
Will we lose our ability to fire our muskets if we go into the water like in.... NW?
This topic  (http://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=105.0)
The bad thing is 99% players on this forum are/were playing NW and mostly due to force of habit they want to have same gameplay here in Holdfast. Quick reminder of what we have in NW:
1. Chambers
2. Spinning/Rotations for speed bonus to attack.
3. "Feints" changing attack directions at light speed.By feinting you are abusing the mechanic which enables you to block in the middle of a stab
4. 2 sides for musket attack.
5. Using high mouse speed to get behind an opponent and stab in the back.
Now some about history:
1. The majority of bayonet attacks ended up with one side fleeing before any contact was made. There were bayonet attacks and charges but most of them wasn't a hand to hand cold steel combat. Mostly those were individual 1v1 or small group fights between soldiers than whole regiments.
2. Wounds made by sometimes up to 50cm !! bayonets weren't sliced but puncture. It's more than enough to pierce heart or other vital organs.
According to another sample taken (in 1762) in Invalides;
- 69 % of the wounded were wounded by musket balls
- 14 % by sabers
- 13 % by artillery
- 2 % by bayonets
It doesn't say that bayonets weren't used but they did not cause most of the disabilites. Why ? Because mostly those were lethal wounds ( pierced guts etc. [internal bleeding] ) or easy to heal like stabbed hand or leg ( Without hitting the artery ). Why 69% muskets? They were crushing bones, destroying whole parts of organs and bringing inside body material which caused infection. 3/4 Invalides had amputated limbs due to broken bones. 1 good stab will end opponents life.
3. Melee manuals show that officers from mostly upper class were taught how to fight duels not "Group Fights". Here you have 2 duels: 1st spades 2nd sabers form the most accurate movie about duels in 19th century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhwIrONyEzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhwIrONyEzg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Fb0Y6uUSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Fb0Y6uUSw)
4. In hand to hand combat soldiers were using any kind of weapon. move that could kill the enemy. Puncture strikes, butt bashes ( butt of the musket ) slices etc.
5. Most of the bayonet stabs were reflected not blocked ( you used your own musket to change the direction of enemies stab away from you and use his mass to stab him in the guts ), slices from Sabre briquets, swords or rifle/musket swings were blocked.

Not going to sticky this but thanks for posting it. While some of us did have input into the development of NW Holdfast and Anvil Studios are wholly independent entities. The game will be it's own animal and hopefully something fresh and enjoyable building on what we already know to work.
I hope they will make this historically accurate/realistic so you won't be still fighting with internal bleeding.
I totally agree with rutger (http://www.holdfastgame.com/forum/index.php?topic=144.0)

AGS doesn't aim to have a real-life simulator 100% historically accurate game.
From their own words : they want to create a a game on which they can build and support an active competitive scene.

Every single word in your post is against it.

And you said it yourself : "99% players on this forum are/were playing NW and mostly due to force of habit they want to have same gameplay here in Holdfast"
Why on earth should they even listen to you, then ? To satisfy the 0.004% players that think the same as you ? (as some people who aren't former NW players don't necessarly agree with you)

You want them to make the game as such, with an exact 69 % of woundeds by musket balls, 14% by sabers, 13% by artillery and 2% by bayonets ?
You also want them to add a hunger system ? a shit 'n piss system ?
And if you get stabbed without being treated afterwards, will you get tetanus ?
Why wouldn't they add a wife&kids system too, would be great.

If you want to play a real-life simulator game that has an absolut priority on virtual-reality experience rather than gameplay experience, go play a game that actually offers it. But not Holdfast.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 14, 2017, 12:56:36 am
(https://gyazo.com/57b92cfd774b2065c4e908da0d56db17.gif)

I would like to see a melee system where the bayonet actually connects, animations are to be seen not just stumble forward to then stumble backwards and repeat.
For the sake of it all put some more resources into the Melee system of this game, NW remained succesful due to its simple to learn, hard to master combat system which really asked for some skill and effort to put into that game, which lead to so amazing tournaments and great fights ingame.

at this rate I dont see that happening in Holdfast which in my opinion will mean a good amount of competitive players will not bother to play the game, which will also make for a lacking competitive scene in this game.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 14, 2017, 01:24:55 am
Hey! Thank you very much for your feedback. We'll continue working on melee combat both before and during Early Access. Improvements upon this core mechanic of the game are at the very top of our priority list. Do continue the discussion and tell us what we can improve.  :)

You can find a more informative reply on melee combat and our stance on it in the pre-release Q&A blog (1st Question):
Pre-release Q&A. Your most pressing questions (http://www.holdfastgame.com/News/Post?p=1026)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 14, 2017, 03:17:17 am
I like directional combat but not NW directional combat. While fluid and mechanically sounds, there is so many autistic things you can do to kill an opponent that makes no fucking sense in a realistic stand point. Such as, feinting, spamming, ridiculous speed at which your character moves while in combat, blocking while in the air, etc
That's what made NW so great imo, in terms of melee.

Obviously i don't mean the jump blocking and so on, and in terms of spamming in a high speed.

Good footwork helps my friend.

NW melee is great. Just cut out the autism and you have perfection.
The melee, whilst still being worked on makes a lot more sense now. The devs will continue improving it through the development process so I am quite excited.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Frittentime on September 14, 2017, 09:36:46 am
i agree with pieter put everything in the melee if u want to have a competitive scene :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Gatts on September 14, 2017, 09:41:44 am
sword melee is ok it seems but melee with bayonet has some issues
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Charles Caldwell on September 14, 2017, 11:07:38 am
I thought it would happen so just a little disappointed to see it... crazed jumping to hinder targeting! Is there no way to limit this as it ruins immersion?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 14, 2017, 01:13:13 pm
I thought it would happen so just a little disappointed to see it... crazed jumping to hinder targeting! Is there no way to limit this as it ruins immersion?

Yes, of course, we can always apply a cooldown timer between one jump and another.

i agree with pieter put everything in the melee if u want to have a competitive scene :)

We're also putting more work into it before Early Access and will continue during it. Feel free to give us more detail feedback with more specifics as to what we can improve if you decide to get your hands on the game. :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Charles Caldwell on September 14, 2017, 01:27:35 pm
I thought it would happen so just a little disappointed to see it... crazed jumping to hinder targeting! Is there no way to limit this as it ruins immersion?

Yes, of course, we can always apply a cooldown timer between one jump and another.


Brilliant and thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 14, 2017, 01:36:06 pm
I thought it would happen so just a little disappointed to see it... crazed jumping to hinder targeting! Is there no way to limit this as it ruins immersion?

Yes, of course, we can always apply a cooldown timer between one jump and another.


Brilliant and thanks for listening.

You're welcome!
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 14, 2017, 05:27:18 pm
Melee is love, Melee is life





chambers
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 14, 2017, 09:49:54 pm
Melee is love, Melee is life





chambers

In melee we trust!!!
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Hawkince on September 15, 2017, 01:22:42 am
Melee needs to be much faster, melee speed from what I've seen has been very slow and doesn't really allow for actual skilled players to go off.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: LeClair on September 15, 2017, 01:25:55 am
Melee needs to be much faster, melee speed from what I've seen has been very slow and doesn't really allow for actual skilled players to go off.

I agree with this. I'll also add that from what i saw there's very little fluidity in the animations.

And the hitboxes, they could use some love.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Kincaid on September 15, 2017, 06:13:49 pm
Melee needs to be much faster, melee speed from what I've seen has been very slow and doesn't really allow for actual skilled players to go off.

Perhaps i'm the exception to the rule here but from what I've seen of the melee I would actually say the opposite (or someone in my reg raised it) - to me the time taken from releasing a stab and it reaching its full extent is almost too fast; If i were the 1 in a 2v1 at the moment and they were 1 up 1 downing, i doubt I would be able to switch blocks (to block both) if there timing was slightly off.

I would definitely say NW attacks from release take longer but maybe I just haven't watched enough vids with melee in! :)

That being said I haven't seen any feinting going on which to me at least is a must.

Totally agree about the lack of fluidity of the animations at present.

*edit* just to clarify i like the look of the game - jut nit picking melee here! :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 16, 2017, 12:06:11 am
(https://gyazo.com/c88f95d2a35400d0df1d0791e6c892c6.gif)

From a recent vid (Credits go to 14e Flopz) shows how again melee doenst connect and these attacks seem so slow in animation.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Gatts on September 16, 2017, 02:11:44 am
(https://gyazo.com/c88f95d2a35400d0df1d0791e6c892c6.gif)

From a recent vid (Credits go to 14e Flopz) shows how again melee doenst connect and these attacks seem so slow in animation.

lul that .gif reminded me this image

(https://i.imgur.com/P5NSXTr.jpg)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Hughes on September 16, 2017, 03:19:52 am
Didn't see a Kick in gameplay vids.
The ability to kick resolves the situation where a block meets a thrust ..., but the thrust is held & block must be held.

Even better than a kick, would be a 'Butt-stroke' for the blocker.


Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Kincaid on September 17, 2017, 02:59:06 pm
Yeah it's difficult - it appears different depending on what vid you watch speed wise.

btw - is this a chamber or something else? (at 3:29)
Spoiler
[close]
When the sparks fly it looks like they've released at same time but may be wrong.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 18, 2017, 12:40:36 am
Hey guys, there's a few melee improvements you haven't yet seen in the current build. I can tell you though that melee is a top priority for the developers, and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community, melee has come a long way but it truly takes a lot of time and effort to build a really great melee system. As someone who played NW for 5+ years because of the melee its very important to me too, but I am confident it will be at a level people are satisfied with, just give it some time.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 18, 2017, 12:40:51 am
Yeah it's difficult - it appears different depending on what vid you watch speed wise.

btw - is this a chamber or something else? (at 3:29)
Spoiler
[close]
When the sparks fly it looks like they've released at same time but may be wrong.
Also yes, I can confirm this is a chamber.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Tiberias on September 18, 2017, 12:57:04 am
Yeah it's difficult - it appears different depending on what vid you watch speed wise.

btw - is this a chamber or something else? (at 3:29)
Spoiler
[close]
When the sparks fly it looks like they've released at same time but may be wrong.
Also yes, I can confirm this is a chamber.

It's not, it happens only when 2 people attack at the same time with the same stab. It only cancel both attacks, nothing more.

A chamber is a counter attack and on NW you don't do a chamber by throwing your stab at the same time but only when the stab almost hit you.

You're from the competitive community but you don't know what a chamber is ?  :-X

I've tested the game and it's clearly not a chamber.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Bluehawk on September 18, 2017, 01:03:25 am
It's a "chamber" by virtue of blocking by attacking, but you're right that they're mechanically different and, in my opinion, the M&B chamber is far more useful and skillful than these accidental cancel-outs which help neither player.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 18, 2017, 01:21:12 am
Yeah it's difficult - it appears different depending on what vid you watch speed wise.

btw - is this a chamber or something else? (at 3:29)
Spoiler
[close]
When the sparks fly it looks like they've released at same time but may be wrong.
Also yes, I can confirm this is a chamber.

It's not, it happens only when 2 people attack at the same time with the same stab. It only cancel both attacks, nothing more.

A chamber is a counter attack and on NW you don't do a chamber by throwing your stab at the same time but only when the stab almost hit you.

You're from the competitive community but you don't know what a chamber is ?  :-X

I've tested the game and it's clearly not a chamber.
I know very well what a chamber is, considering I am the one who recommended it be implemented into the game. A chamber is a parry, they just have different impacts on melee from NW to Holdfast.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 18, 2017, 01:45:21 am
As NW's best meleer of all time  8), I must say the melee looks to be lacking from what I've seen. everything else looks great but melee mechanics should be the main focus and will keep players interested in the long run I think

Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 18, 2017, 01:50:33 am
As NW's best meleer of all time  8), I must say the melee looks to be lacking from what I've seen. everything else looks great but melee mechanics should be the main focus and will keep players interested in the long run I think
I can tell you right now they're the main focus, and we're working on more depth/improvement to the system currently.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 18, 2017, 02:02:30 am
Probably be hard to implement in a multiplayer game with so many people on one server but a game called Exanima https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLYj9JfK4-Y
has pretty cool melee...Kills are more satisfying than Warbands with the physics in this game

Adding more physics to the melee animations would be great but I have no clue how hard that is to do so yea
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Getty on September 18, 2017, 09:29:24 am
Probably be hard to implement in a multiplayer game with so many people on one server but a game called Exanima https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLYj9JfK4-Y
has pretty cool melee...Kills are more satisfying than Warbands with the physics in this game

Adding more physics to the melee animations would be great but I have no clue how hard that is to do so yea
Something like this would be incredibly hard to do unfortunately, although the rag dolls are pretty great currently.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 18, 2017, 09:36:46 am
and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community,
Which members of the comp community?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: TooL69 on September 18, 2017, 04:33:41 pm
Hey guys, there's a few melee improvements you haven't yet seen in the current build. I can tell you though that melee is a top priority for the developers, and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community, melee has come a long way but it truly takes a lot of time and effort to build a really great melee system. As someone who played NW for 5+ years because of the melee its very important to me too, but I am confident it will be at a level people are satisfied with, just give it some time.

Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Frittentime on September 18, 2017, 04:41:09 pm
Hey guys, there's a few melee improvements you haven't yet seen in the current build. I can tell you though that melee is a top priority for the developers, and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community, melee has come a long way but it truly takes a lot of time and effort to build a really great melee system. As someone who played NW for 5+ years because of the melee its very important to me too, but I am confident it will be at a level people are satisfied with, just give it some time.

Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
i hope u arent serious with that post
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 18, 2017, 06:07:25 pm
Hey guys, there's a few melee improvements you haven't yet seen in the current build. I can tell you though that melee is a top priority for the developers, and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community, melee has come a long way but it truly takes a lot of time and effort to build a really great melee system. As someone who played NW for 5+ years because of the melee its very important to me too, but I am confident it will be at a level people are satisfied with, just give it some time.

Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
i hope u arent serious with that post
Fritten, get used to these posts they are all over holdfast.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 18, 2017, 06:47:47 pm
I will find the location of each person that says melee is not the main thing they should focus on !!!!!
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Saga on September 18, 2017, 06:58:06 pm
I will find the location of each person that says melee is not the main thing they should focus on !!!!!
and send them back to WoR  ;)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 18, 2017, 07:08:16 pm
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Tiberias on September 18, 2017, 07:14:00 pm
Hey guys, there's a few melee improvements you haven't yet seen in the current build. I can tell you though that melee is a top priority for the developers, and they're working pretty closely with myself and some other members of the competitive community, melee has come a long way but it truly takes a lot of time and effort to build a really great melee system. As someone who played NW for 5+ years because of the melee its very important to me too, but I am confident it will be at a level people are satisfied with, just give it some time.

Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/yoJC2B1sHdXJjPTnEs/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 18, 2017, 09:03:05 pm
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

68.8% wounded by small arms
13.4% wounded by artillery
14.7% wounded by swords
2.4% wounded by bayonets
(Corvisier, 1964, 65)

Go play native or something.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 18, 2017, 09:04:39 pm
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

But only 1% of deaths during the era were by the bayonet.
don't take the bait guys
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: TooL69 on September 18, 2017, 11:16:45 pm
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

68.8% wounded by small arms
13.4% wounded by artillery
14.7% wounded by swords
2.4% wounded by bayonets
(Corvisier, 1964, 65)

Go play native or something.

Tselorungo worked with personal documents of soldiers and officers of the Russian army who participated in military companies until 1814:

Spoiler
[close]
http://www.museum.ru/museum/1812/Library/Borodino_conf/2006/Celorungo.pdf

He also notes that the wounds of cold steel were very weak. Some soldiers and officers had up to 12 wounds with cold weapons, but returned to service after the treatment.

And there are data on the rewards received by Russian soldiers in the Battle of Borodino:
Spoiler
[close]
http://www.museum.ru/museum/1812/Library/Borodino_conf/2007/Celorungo.pdf

This is the most detailed and accurate data that I have come across regarding the injuries of the warriors of that era.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 19, 2017, 12:40:15 am
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

68.8% wounded by small arms
13.4% wounded by artillery
14.7% wounded by swords
2.4% wounded by bayonets
(Corvisier, 1964, 65)

Go play native or something.

Its a video game who cares if its historically accurate or not...Melee in is fun...
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 19, 2017, 01:53:16 am
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

68.8% wounded by small arms
13.4% wounded by artillery
14.7% wounded by swords
2.4% wounded by bayonets
(Corvisier, 1964, 65)

Go play native or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_GsVjLrWQY

there you go found the game for you Garry's mod Napoleonic era no bayonets only shooting, ENJOY.

also did you know:

100% fucks given about melee
0% fucks if its historically accurate

STATS DONT LIE!!!!
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: VetroG on September 19, 2017, 02:04:07 am
Why a complex system of melee in the game about the era of overwhelming superiority of firearms?
The soldiers of that time did not even teach methods with bayonets and sabers. Hardly they knew how to parry blows. Although they did not need it, because with bayonets and sabers they were finishing off the runaway and wounded.

I think the developers make the mistake of making melee the main element of the battles.
There's enough shooting games out there...melees the fun part we need more good melee games

68.8% wounded by small arms
13.4% wounded by artillery
14.7% wounded by swords
2.4% wounded by bayonets
(Corvisier, 1964, 65)

Go play native or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_GsVjLrWQY

there you go found the game for you Garry's mod Napoleonic era no bayonets only shooting, ENJOY.

also did you know:

100% fucks given about melee
0% fucks if its historically accurate

STATS DONT LIE!!!!
That's a 200 man battle!!  :o :o
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Hughes on September 19, 2017, 02:37:07 am
Stats don't exist as regard to melee vs gunshots -- "Morning states" counted: Present/Wounded/Killed/Missing.
The French army only returned names of officers Wounded/Killed/Missing to Paris.

Lies, damn lies and statistic.  --Disraeli
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Bluehawk on September 19, 2017, 03:35:52 am
Langeron noted in his memoirs that most charges did not result in a melee, as the defender either gave up their ground under the pressure of the attack, or they stood their ground and the attacker gave up the charge - both scenarios typically ended in people being shot in the back.

Battlegrounds 1 and 2 had a terrible melee system of a single point hitscan attack with a cool-down, even for swords, and players still wound up stabbing each other in a big circle-strafing dance party after a volley or two. I don't think there's anything Anvil Studios can do mechanically to change a community that values melee skill above most else and will judge the quality of the game on it.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 19, 2017, 07:25:29 am
Good melee mechanics are great fun and we really enjoy working on them! Andreas (the programmer) is working towards improving this key system and will continue to do so during Early Access. As it stands, the melee system is being given the highest priority.

More players from the competitive scene have also graciously accepted our invitation to the game so we can work with them on designing the melee combat. We are also considering opening a separate branch from the main game where we can push quick updates towards this system.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Charles Caldwell on September 19, 2017, 10:17:35 am
Melee in this period was and should be a very small element of the game and should not dominate the battlefield... those who want melee should wait for Bannerlords (like me).

This game will descend into two charging mobs if Melee is too effective, with lots of players running around and gnashing of teeth. :)

*Cavalry of course is all about the charge.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Hughes on September 19, 2017, 02:07:25 pm
Melee in this period was and should be a very small element of the game and should not dominate the battlefield... those who want melee should wait for Bannerlords (like me).

This game will descend into two charging mobs if Melee is too effective, with lots of players running around and gnashing of teeth. :)

*Cavalry of course is all about the charge.

This may not be the game for you it seems.
Have you looked at 'War of Rights'?

Civil War era rifled muskets, the Minié ball.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Charles Caldwell on September 19, 2017, 02:46:31 pm
Melee in this period was and should be a very small element of the game and should not dominate the battlefield... those who want melee should wait for Bannerlords (like me).

This game will descend into two charging mobs if Melee is too effective, with lots of players running around and gnashing of teeth. :)

*Cavalry of course is all about the charge.

This may not be the game for you it seems.
Have you looked at 'War of Rights'?

Civil War era rifled muskets, the Minié ball.

lol I'm a Company Commander (1st North Carolina Sharpshooters C Company) in War of Rights......... can I not enjoy both?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 19, 2017, 04:22:17 pm
Melee in this period was and should be a very small element of the game and should not dominate the battlefield... those who want melee should wait for Bannerlords (like me).

This game will descend into two charging mobs if Melee is too effective, with lots of players running around and gnashing of teeth. :)

*Cavalry of course is all about the charge.

This may not be the game for you it seems.
Have you looked at 'War of Rights'?

Civil War era rifled muskets, the Minié ball.

lol I'm a Company Commander (1st North Carolina Sharpshooters C Company) in War of Rights......... can I not enjoy both?

I agree with you, melee shouldn't dominate the battlefield, but melee should atleast be fun.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Charles Caldwell on September 19, 2017, 04:56:47 pm
Agreed, currently in WoR Melee is awful.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 19, 2017, 05:10:12 pm
Good melee mechanics are great fun and we really enjoy working on them! Andreas (the programmer) is working towards improving this key system and will continue to do so during Early Access. As it stands, the melee system is being given the highest priority.

More players from the competitive scene have also graciously accepted our invitation to the game so we can work with them on designing the melee combat. We are also considering opening a separate branch from the main game where we can push quick updates towards this system.
As NWs greatest player of all time, The King of NW is the name that they gave me.

I think you should consult me for my melee expertise. wink wink  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 19, 2017, 05:12:47 pm
Good melee mechanics are great fun and we really enjoy working on them! Andreas (the programmer) is working towards improving this key system and will continue to do so during Early Access. As it stands, the melee system is being given the highest priority.

More players from the competitive scene have also graciously accepted our invitation to the game so we can work with them on designing the melee combat. We are also considering opening a separate branch from the main game where we can push quick updates towards this system.
As NWs greatest player of all time, The King of NW is the name that they gave me.

I think you should consult me for my melee expertise. wink wink  ;) ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/x6UqViJ.png)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: BillTheButcher on September 19, 2017, 05:19:36 pm
That is cute did you just make that all for me?...Never said Duel tourneys don't matter but it is correct even though I've won like 7-8 of them...4 in a row  :D

Highest KD  on NA gf by far.

The King has spoken.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Aaron702 on September 20, 2017, 10:05:32 pm
Melee is the universal indicator of skill in NW. Considering the player base will be a large portion of ex-NW players and the game itself is of very similar nature, melee will be the indicator of skill here too. There is almost no competitive element (apart from 1v1 lines, think NWL) to lining up and shooting eachother. There's no room for skill or personal style. Part of the thrill of NW was having the odds stacked against you, but being able to pull through because you relied on your own melee skill, not because some predetermined stat governed that your unit sucked (think ramrod vs 2 line infantry).
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 20, 2017, 10:17:07 pm
Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 21, 2017, 01:28:48 pm
Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?

If possible otherwise the game loses its fun in 3-4 weeks tops :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Miller786 on September 21, 2017, 02:34:06 pm
Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?
NW is an esport? lol
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 21, 2017, 04:26:34 pm
Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?

If possible otherwise the game loses its fun in 3-4 weeks tops :)

Gross.

Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?
NW is an esport? lol

When everyone cares about dueling, 1v1's, and GF matches, then yes it is an esport.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 21, 2017, 05:51:58 pm
Do you guys want HoldFast to be an esport like NW?

If possible otherwise the game loses its fun in 3-4 weeks tops :)
the truth
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Bear on September 21, 2017, 09:16:41 pm
Add inverted attack direction and inverted block controls for those who use them, I know some who do.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: lawbringer911 on September 21, 2017, 10:17:09 pm
mfw Getty of all people is leading the melee discussion and is the speaker for the "competitive" community when his own reg hasn't done a competitive event in years from his own refusal to do them lmaooooooo.

In all seriousness, Bill is a low tier troll but he is a good meleer and probably can give good insight to how to improve things. If he doesn't troll whilst doing so.

I also agree with pieter that without a solid melee system, there is little room for the player to improve skillwise and will lead to a quick death for the game.

@Andee this game was said by the developers it is meant to be a competitive game so that invalidates your whole argument
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Paul on September 21, 2017, 10:46:06 pm
Well I just played for a little bit right now but for me personally the most important thing would be to smoothen the melle because at the moment I had the Problem that it took about 2 seconds till my char blocked the way I wanted him to and that was most of the time to long to save me.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 21, 2017, 10:52:29 pm
Feints are to buggy and the general over flow is crap in the melee system
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Golden on September 21, 2017, 11:44:43 pm
Blocking speed needs to be massively increased, why is the delay so long?

The mouse movement controls for blocking and attacking are not smooth yet feeling very slow often getting the wrong block or attack direction for no obvious reasons.

Can we please get a stun mechanic for when you hit or at least some penalty for being stabbed by a bayonet or sword.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Frittentime on September 21, 2017, 11:58:25 pm
add a kick
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 22, 2017, 12:15:52 am
Blocking speed needs to be massively increased, why is the delay so long?

The mouse movement controls for blocking and attacking are not smooth yet feeling very slow often getting the wrong block or attack direction for no obvious reasons.

Can we please get a stun mechanic for when you hit or at least some penalty for being stabbed by a bayonet or sword.

The problem with that blocking delay right now is occurring mostly with high player servers. We're collecting a lot of data from this largest stress test that the game has ever seen. When this is fixed, the melee will already feel much better. This won't be the only melee related update or fix we'll be pushing towards the game of course.

Have a look at our development roadmap to see our plans for it. There'll be more than that coming as well pending on feedback from our community!

Check out the development roadmap. (http://www.holdfastgame.com/News/Post?p=1027)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 22, 2017, 12:16:31 am
add a kick

Yup, will do!

"Secondary Attacks - Secondary attacks specific for each and every melee weapon which would cancel another person’s block if hit, are being worked on. You’ll be seeing this in the game shortly after the animator finishes working on the animations."
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Golden on September 22, 2017, 12:21:24 am
That's great to here, the only other thing I would like to mention is that I feel the attack and block directions for mouse movement are too exagerated for example to perform an up stab or up block im having to move my mouse quite far up resulting in my camera facing the sky sometimes, I think an improvement would be to decrease the distance needed to move the mouse to performs said block or attack.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Hawkince on September 22, 2017, 02:16:50 am
Melee is decent but melee speed should have no delay, and also sword needs a nerf
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: r3xjm on September 22, 2017, 02:51:20 am
Yeah, I have to agree with the sentimant that melee feels too slow and clunky at the moment. Most duels I've seen are just two people trying to out manoeuvre eachother and get stabs in instead of blocking, perhaps as a result of this.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: The Predurrdurr on September 22, 2017, 03:14:20 am
the up and down attacks for the bayonet look the exact same and you also should lessen the like how long the animation takes to let you block. And just make everything generally smoother
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Archer on September 22, 2017, 03:33:33 am
add a kick

To be fair, with the right settings the melee becomes slights more bearable.

However more on adding kick:
 Kicking was an integral part of many players melee system on NW. However I would highly suggest fixing the hit boxs before anything else. From what I understand the hitbox is part of the delay in blocking. Another thing would be lunging during attacking, maybe making the attack distances slightly shorter, but while doing this you would have to make the transition from an attack from a block much smoother. Overall, decent stuff so far, a fun game, but a bit of work to be done on the melee. Props guys keep up the good work.  ;)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Marceaux on September 22, 2017, 04:38:50 am
Remove the delay of attacks and blocks. Its literally the biggest problem. Having to wait half a second+ for your attack or block to register is just bad all around. Must be more responsive and accurate with higher speed.

And note this delay happens in literally all servers regardless of player count or ping etc.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Knightmare on September 22, 2017, 04:58:46 am
add a kick

Yup, will do!

"Secondary Attacks - Secondary attacks specific for each and every melee weapon which would cancel another person’s block if hit, are being worked on. You’ll be seeing this in the game shortly after the animator finishes working on the animations."
Works like chambers from NW,then?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: firefly on September 22, 2017, 06:13:59 am
Melee definitely needs work so long as you get the fluidity and the hitboxes sorted first the additional higher level techniques can probably wait a bit

hope chambers are implemented i have spent a bit too much time practicing them, would like to see them return and that the execution of them can differ depending on the players e.g. footwork timing so that poorly defended chambers are unblockable and well defended chambers are no scarier than a stab.

i also welcome any fair and balanced options for melee so that we can have as many different styles and techniques to contend with in order to have interesting fights.

best of luck with holdfast i will keep an eye on the game and potentially re-purchase should it interest me.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 22, 2017, 06:56:53 am
If the server pop doesn't get above 80 and the lag is bearable, the melee isnt that bad.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Marceaux on September 22, 2017, 07:29:18 am
If the server pop doesn't get above 80 and the lag is bearable, the melee isnt that bad.

This is the problem haha!!! :P
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Zahari on September 22, 2017, 08:53:06 am
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Golden on September 22, 2017, 11:28:22 am
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl
I had delay with 5 people on a server.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Zahari on September 22, 2017, 11:29:49 am
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl
I had delay with 5 people on a server.
Thats strange :o
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on September 22, 2017, 12:22:20 pm
We just pushed a server-side update to reduce latency on servers which should help a little bit with the melee delay as well.

This will not entirely solve the problem, however. We'll be pushing more updates towards the melee.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Brosse Gite on September 22, 2017, 04:53:27 pm
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl

That's because you are The Man With 0 Ping
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Zahari on September 22, 2017, 05:04:51 pm
God xD you still remember that, Im impressed now
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 22, 2017, 06:41:28 pm
We just pushed a server-side update to reduce latency on servers which should help a little bit with the melee delay as well.

This will not entirely solve the problem, however. We'll be pushing more updates towards the melee.

You're a god, Refleax. Even then, gods need rest. Don't work yourself to death ;)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Marceaux on September 22, 2017, 06:45:39 pm
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl
I had delay with 5 people on a server.
Thats strange :o

Are you saying you press up attack for example and it instantly up attacks (or blocks)? Because every server i have went into even private servers where i am alone with good ping still do not register my attacks or blocks at least a half a second or longer until after i have pressed the buttons etc. And that delay is terrible and ruins any chance of a truly competitive melee fight.

And note several other players experience this exactly as i do under a variety of circumstances.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Zahari on September 22, 2017, 06:56:50 pm
I dont have any kind of delay in melee on servers with less than 80ppl
I had delay with 5 people on a server.
Thats strange :o

Are you saying you press up attack for example and it instantly up attacks (or blocks)? Because every server i have went into even private servers where i am alone with good ping still do not register my attacks or blocks at least a half a second or longer until after i have pressed the buttons etc. And that delay is terrible and ruins any chance of a truly competitive melee fight.
If so many ppl see the same problem than they are probably right and it seems that Im just used to melee speed cause Im testing it since the begining of august.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Brosse Gite on September 22, 2017, 07:07:48 pm
God xD you still remember that, Im impressed now

for 10 years of intense no-lifing you're the only player i've ever seen with 0 ping, so yeah I remember that quite easily
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Gatts on September 22, 2017, 07:25:45 pm
Add jump attack with sword and bayonet. So, let us swing our swords while jumping.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: 17e l Pieter on September 22, 2017, 09:17:37 pm
Add jump attack with sword and bayonet. So, let us swing our swords while jumping.

No.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Darkenmal on September 22, 2017, 09:40:19 pm
Personally, I find the melee to be extremely delayed at the moment. There seems to be a delay from the moment you go to block to when your in-game avatar reflects your action. This is to the point that anyone with a sword in melee range destroys bayonets if they keep spamming alternative moves.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Dingle on September 22, 2017, 10:39:43 pm
Personally, I find the melee to be extremely delayed at the moment. There seems to be a delay from the moment you go to block to when your in-game avatar reflects your action. This is to the point that anyone with a sword in melee range destroys bayonets if they keep spamming alternative moves.

Just my two cents.

I agree. A lot of people are saying that this is a latency issue, but it isn't. This happens even when you're on a server by yourself with <20 ping.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Marceaux on September 23, 2017, 12:28:10 am
Personally, I find the melee to be extremely delayed at the moment. There seems to be a delay from the moment you go to block to when your in-game avatar reflects your action. This is to the point that anyone with a sword in melee range destroys bayonets if they keep spamming alternative moves.

Just my two cents.

I agree. A lot of people are saying that this is a latency issue, but it isn't. This happens even when you're on a server by yourself with <20 ping.

THIS!! ^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Archer on September 23, 2017, 10:43:39 am
Personally, I find the melee to be extremely delayed at the moment. There seems to be a delay from the moment you go to block to when your in-game avatar reflects your action. This is to the point that anyone with a sword in melee range destroys bayonets if they keep spamming alternative moves.

Just my two cents.

Agreed, the timing between stabbing and blocking is awful at the moment. Can't feint whatsoever and it makes it nearly impossible to aim stabs and block attacks. Dont really think its a latency issue either, think its more the actual timing of the attacks and blocks.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Thebestever123 on September 23, 2017, 01:13:11 pm
I have a idea idk if someone else has mentioned it but ill say it any
It would be cool if we could burn down certian houses in the game so for example if a regiment is in a building the enemy could choose to burn the house and leaving the regiment  no choice but to leave the house ect ect
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Exodus on September 23, 2017, 03:23:58 pm
Melee at the moment is simply a soam fest to see who can land two shots, blocking isn't even used as it's too slow.

It's like 10 seconds after stabbing that it actually stabs someone, like said above it happens even with 20-40 ping.

1stRVR was also testing hitboxes today, sometimes it would go right through a player and he would not die. When you stand next to someone you somehow shoot them evem if they're not in your reticle or view
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Paul on September 23, 2017, 06:47:22 pm
I just had the problem that I was standing really close of an enemy player and we were jsut spamming attacks. Somehow even if we looked at each other and even touched the hits just didn´t come it took about 10 seconds until an infantry man came and just shot the other player.

Please fix the hitboxes
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: sillywilly1414 on September 23, 2017, 11:06:30 pm
They're aware of the hitbox issue and are working on that. I think it was about a day before EA release me and some testers were showing Refleax the issue with shots hitting a player even if the shot should have been going over the shoulder. So they're definitely aware.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: r3xjm on September 24, 2017, 12:47:22 am
Ok, after going back between this and NW I think I can see another reason blocking feels much slower, and why if you select the wrong block you cannot instantly correct it.

Here in holdfast, as soon as you release a block your character will instantly move his musket into the "neutral" no block position, meaning if you wish to quickly change block from an up to a down, side to other side etc, your character will take 3 steps to do this, Block 1 > Neutral > Block 2 causing a momentary delay between the two blocks. In NW however, when you release a block the character will hold it for a short amount of time, before going to the neutral stage, allowing rapid blocks with only two steps, ie Block 1 > Block 2 etc.

I am not sure as I have not really looked into it, but this may also effect tap blocking and feinting.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Archer on September 24, 2017, 10:47:05 am
Ok, after going back between this and NW I think I can see another reason blocking feels much slower, and why if you select the wrong block you cannot instantly correct it.

Here in holdfast, as soon as you release a block your character will instantly move his musket into the "neutral" no block position, meaning if you wish to quickly change block from an up to a down, side to other side etc, your character will take 3 steps to do this, Block 1 > Neutral > Block 2 causing a momentary delay between the two blocks. In NW however, when you release a block the character will hold it for a short amount of time, before going to the neutral stage, allowing rapid blocks with only two steps, ie Block 1 > Block 2 etc.

I am not sure as I have not really looked into it, but this may also effect tap blocking and feinting.
I think if they want melee to become in any shape or form competative, they might as well remove it going back to neutral between blocks. Otherwise, that and the hitboxes totally ruin melee. It would be fun to have a game where you can have all of these other fun factors, and fun melee. Quicker blocking along with quicker feinting would make melee much smoother, and more effective, along with the fixing of hitboxes.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Terethor on September 24, 2017, 12:12:30 pm
Hey, could we please allow the melee attack direction to be inverted? Maybe with separate options for vertical and horizontal attacks, and horizontal and vertical parry? Like a lot of people I'm coming from NW and I've been used to the exact opposite directions in order to attack.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Painmace on September 24, 2017, 12:16:46 pm
I think turning while moving with a melee attack is a weak point in the system.

Comparing it to NW you can do some really quick turns. It dosent have to be as fast but right now its to slow. You cant react to attacks.
You see the enemy coming out of the corner of your eye but you cant really turn when it matters.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Lecourbe on September 24, 2017, 11:58:31 pm
Hey, could we please allow the melee attack direction to be inverted? Maybe with separate options for vertical and horizontal attacks, and horizontal and vertical parry? Like a lot of people I'm coming from NW and I've been used to the exact opposite directions in order to attack.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 25, 2017, 12:53:34 am
Yeah it's difficult - it appears different depending on what vid you watch speed wise.

btw - is this a chamber or something else? (at 3:29)
Spoiler
[close]
When the sparks fly it looks like they've released at same time but may be wrong.
Also yes, I can confirm this is a chamber.

It's not, it happens only when 2 people attack at the same time with the same stab. It only cancel both attacks, nothing more.

A chamber is a counter attack and on NW you don't do a chamber by throwing your stab at the same time but only when the stab almost hit you.

You're from the competitive community but you don't know what a chamber is ?  :-X

I've tested the game and it's clearly not a chamber.
I know very well what a chamber is, considering I am the one who recommended it be implemented into the game. A chamber is a parry, they just have different impacts on melee from NW to Holdfast.
Will they make the parry able to finish off an opponent like nw? instead of this non reward thingy.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Gatts on September 25, 2017, 10:31:24 am
Jump attack?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Knightmare on September 25, 2017, 02:58:07 pm
At this level,removing the delay of blocking and attacking is probably best,it will improve it vastly,also raise the bayonet's damage, and make it less robotic. Saves melee for now :)
Jump attack?
kys
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: madbull on September 26, 2017, 02:32:36 am
These hitboxes give me cancer.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: ExoticFail on September 27, 2017, 03:21:43 pm
Heyho,

While playing I noticed some stuff, when you start reloading, sometimes u cant swap into melee mode, happend quite a lot actually.

Hitboxes are definetly improvable, but the main problem is the delay you have when you want to stab or block. The current way the melee works simply does not allow to go for blocking, since you are far better of spamming the enemy to death and whoever is more lucky wins. Dont get me wrong. I dont want the melee to be like NW, I played it a lot, so some kind of change would be awesome either way.

Probably not the channel for it, but none the less, Good Job on the shooting mechanics and the musicians!

I hope this will help in some kinda way.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SnuggleBunny on September 28, 2017, 12:52:45 am
removed, wrong thread, my apologies
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SK on September 28, 2017, 06:02:25 pm
Indeed, these are good suggestions, especially the reload and ballistics stuff. I don't think a 4 man arty crew would work though, probably too complicated for this sort of game. But I think a 2 man crew would be a good compromise between gameplay and realism. I also would like round shot to do less explosive damage, but maybe have it bounce further to make up for it.
  :o
Title: Re: Naval suggestions/idea's, !
Post by: Julian Schaalje on September 28, 2017, 09:30:56 pm
Naval idea: If you hit the ship, it will be nice if you see the holes in there.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Andee on September 29, 2017, 01:13:40 am
Naval idea: If you hit the ship, it will be nice if you see the holes in there.

This thread is for melee suggestions. If you want to discuss naval, make a thread about it ;D
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Dutch on September 29, 2017, 09:51:01 am
The combat since the server latency fix has been improved. However, the combat is still very clunky and hitboxes very small, the hitboxes are very accurate around the character, don't get me wrong. However, because bayonets are so accurate when thrusting you'll most likely miss alot. Swords are very bias in Holdfast, and have super quick swing animations. Can we do something about this?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on October 01, 2017, 01:47:24 pm
The combat since the server latency fix has been improved. However, the combat is still very clunky and hitboxes very small, the hitboxes are very accurate around the character, don't get me wrong. However, because bayonets are so accurate when thrusting you'll most likely miss alot. Swords are very bias in Holdfast, and have super quick swing animations. Can we do something about this?

Yes, indeed! We will be working on a new set of sword animations. The hitbox will also be looked into.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Marceaux on October 01, 2017, 11:30:27 pm
The combat since the server latency fix has been improved. However, the combat is still very clunky and hitboxes very small, the hitboxes are very accurate around the character, don't get me wrong. However, because bayonets are so accurate when thrusting you'll most likely miss alot. Swords are very bias in Holdfast, and have super quick swing animations. Can we do something about this?

Yes, indeed! We will be working on a new set of sword animations. The hitbox will also be looked into.

What about the overall speed/delay of blocks and attacks with a bayonet? :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: elhlyn on October 05, 2017, 11:49:56 pm
This may sound really petty, but I would really like for bayonets to be detachable and have an effect on a musket.besides of how awesome it would be when a regiment in sync fix bayonets, I do find it kinda silly that when you reload in first person, you kinda look like you're slitting your wrists when ramming the bullet in. The only benifit of having a bayonet fixed on your gun is quick and easy response (as appose to having to take a short moment to fix and remove bayonets) the downside could be that accuracy is hampered (which is true, this is why bayonets aren't always fixed on rifles in combat). granted, the hampered accuracy of a MUSKET isn't too big of a deal so maybe it takes a bit more time to reload your musket with a bayonet fixed on it (after all, it's sharp and pointy)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Intel Guardian on October 06, 2017, 12:24:19 am
It seems pretty niche. Most line infantry and a lot of light infantry had their bayonets fixed almost all the time, though I guess it would be nice for rifles.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: TooL69 on October 08, 2017, 01:56:22 pm
Why bayonets / sabers began to kill with one blow? Is this what you call a good balance?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Anthony on October 13, 2017, 08:13:13 pm
The combat since the server latency fix has been improved. However, the combat is still very clunky and hitboxes very small, the hitboxes are very accurate around the character, don't get me wrong. However, because bayonets are so accurate when thrusting you'll most likely miss alot. Swords are very bias in Holdfast, and have super quick swing animations. Can we do something about this?

Yes, indeed! We will be working on a new set of sword animations. The hitbox will also be looked into.
+1
What about the overall speed/delay of blocks and attacks with a bayonet? :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: NickCole on October 14, 2017, 02:17:16 am
All I'm saying is if holdfast melee doesn't improve in about a month of two the game will die faster. If Holdfast melee an become alot better then tons of more people will buy the game especially competitive players. I would say improve people's movement with a bayonet like the block is kinda slow and you can barely move much when you are in melee mode with a musket.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Royalist on October 14, 2017, 02:16:47 pm
Why bayonets / sabers began to kill with one blow? Is this what you call a good balance?
Getting stabed and slashed kind of.. hurts..
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Almqvist on October 14, 2017, 02:43:56 pm
I just get annoyed when it takes 3 hits to kill that goddamn flagbearer
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Sgt.Nightfire on October 19, 2017, 04:44:28 am
When you take a knee, you cannot switch from bayonet to musket and vice versa. This is incredibly annoying as sometimes in first person i forgot i was kneeling and got pissed why my bayonet would not come out.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Faultier on October 29, 2017, 09:38:45 pm
Yeah they should fix it that players can abort reloading by klicking right mouse button and than change to bayonet.


Btw: It would be also a nice feature for light infantry/riflemen if you could attach/remove the bayonet. Fixed for close combat while removed bayonets will increase the accuracy a bit. As disadvantage your melee attack with unattached bayonets (buttstock) will be less lethal
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Ead on October 30, 2017, 10:44:38 pm
Any notice how Flag bearers tend to go on rampages with that thing? I'm not sure what it is but the flag is doing more work than most bayonets.

(also seconding the ability to switch into melee from crouch. Happens to me all the time.)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Refleax on October 31, 2017, 02:45:46 am
When you take a knee, you cannot switch from bayonet to musket and vice versa. This is incredibly annoying as sometimes in first person i forgot i was kneeling and got pissed why my bayonet would not come out.

Yes, indeed. That's something we need to work on along with other improvements to melee combat.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Bjergsson on November 27, 2017, 08:05:13 pm
Any notice how Flag bearers tend to go on rampages with that thing? I'm not sure what it is but the flag is doing more work than most bayonets.

(also seconding the ability to switch into melee from crouch. Happens to me all the time.)

Yes flags are somehow killers in a way I have yet to fully understand. I have been killed by them even though I was past the point of the flagpole and right up against them. Honestly I don't see the point of having them be a weapon (I prefer them as a buff) as flag bearers already have weapons don't they?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Saga on December 03, 2017, 04:00:39 am
(https://i.imgflip.com/20ek6t.jpg)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Eternal on December 17, 2017, 09:50:03 am
Attack and block animations should not depend on the server, and instead trigger immediately when the player presses a button. It helps the player to control over the character with more comfort while the process of adapting to a ping would still be the same.

Now I am gonna present some debatable suggestions since I believe the combat should not be a copy cat of M&B's combat:
1. I am fine with the current spinning speed. You punish the player for missing, keep that. No need people spinning all the time. However, perhaps allow the player spin fast if blocking?
2. When blocking an attack, let the attacker be stunned a little longer but allow him to move to at least dodge attacks.
3. Improve chambering, I haven't tested as I don't have good testing grounds but I believe a "ping-pong" situation where players chamber each other should be possible. That can be accomplished by allowing more chamber control: You decide if you want to release to attack, or stop the "ping pong" to go for a block. Congrats, we just created a rock-paper-scissors game, except it's attack-block-chamber.
4. Related to 2: as a blocker, perhaps gain small damage bonus for a successful block? Special animation for that?
5. a. Add a stock strike to stun a player who's turtling (blocking all the time and not moving). Very short range but degree angel would be about 170.
5. b. If not stock strike, than a kick. Range to whatever you think might be right here, I'd still recommend short, and obviously angel would be the aim.
5. c. Add both, but stock strike will be available only for short barrels and pistols (as elbow strikes). This kinda gets a mechanic that is similar to the grappling mechanic in fighting games. Recovery rate after such strike should depend on the weapon (in other words, long recovery for muskets if you include it for it)
6. Not sure if it exists already, but bonus damage for offensive gameplay. More damage when charging into enemy.
7. More action-canceling moments to create confusion. Maybe this already exists, but it's hard for me to notice (or "feel") due ping.

Mechanics for crouching in melee combat: (easier to mix crouch into combat if crouch is not toggled)
1. To use it to dodge upper stabs, allow crouching while moving and allow it to be "canceled" in middle of crouching so you can immediately stand up if you decide to do so in the middle of that action.
2. If kicking added, allow to do it while crouched.

The reason I think crouching should be used in combat is because it would work similarly to double tapping a button in other fighting games to dodge, except in this case you don't double tap and do it yourself more actively (which also means the attacked might also still hit you). Double tapping would suck, but this mechanic would add more variety to combat.

I believe most of the things I added above would work well if you also make it possible for the player to cancel or combine (mix) their actions at will, unless a certain time passes. It makes the fighting more dynamic.

P.S Sorry for the grammar mistakes, each time I read my own post I find more and more mistakes. If something's not clear, I'd happily rephrase it.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: johncage on January 01, 2018, 07:08:56 pm
Why bayonets / sabers began to kill with one blow? Is this what you call a good balance?
Getting stabed and slashed kind of.. hurts..

agreed. no tanks please. besides if you let them in melee range, you screwed up already.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Panda on January 13, 2018, 07:16:20 am
A few ideas

1) melee should be 1st hold a button will let you use your bayonet, then releasing will give you a very inaccurate hip fire shot for a few second then as the musket is brought up to the shoulder it returns to normal. 2nd pressing a second button will let you use a do or die bayonet attack (similar to battlefield 1) with slightly increased speed and highly reduced accuracy

2) (not about melee) when reloading (musket only) you should be able to skip the ram rod part and just tap it to go down (however if you aim down it will miss fire)(also making the musket less accurate), 2nd when you reload the proper way you should have the ability of firing when half finished reloading (going off half-cocked) giving you reduced accuracy
and the never being able to use it again in that life.

From the Command tent of the 127th Adrado Regiment
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Devil Anse on January 23, 2018, 03:12:26 pm
I feel that the biggest current issue with melee is the delay between releasing your right mouse button and the attack animation playing. I'm not sure if this delay is due to latency or if there are unnecessary frames in the attack animation.

I believe that it's probably due to the latter, because everything else feels very responsive (except for reloading and switching from firing to melee, which sometimes takes two key presses to register).

Responsiveness should be paramount, everything else will follow suit. Thank you for reading.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Harry on January 26, 2018, 11:57:45 am
I would still prefer an inverse attack direction option, I still get mixed up between doing left and right swings and doing an upper stab when you mean to do a lower one and vice versa can be annoying.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Jean-Baptiste on January 26, 2018, 06:45:20 pm
This might have been suggested before, but I'd love to see some units (Naval comes to mind) with hatchets/axes. Perhaps with the ability to do damage to structures or ships?

Just a thought. :)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: SlashBolt on February 12, 2018, 01:55:24 am
The melee as it stands doesn't "feel" like it does in Napoleonic Wars, which is very jarring. I'm not used to having to wind up before and after I let go of my mouse. Is NW's standard for melee a goal as far as the devs are concerned?
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Absol on February 12, 2018, 03:16:45 am
The melee as it stands doesn't "feel" like it does in Napoleonic Wars, which is very jarring. I'm not used to having to wind up before and after I let go of my mouse. Is NW's standard for melee a goal as far as the devs are concerned?
I would think so, considering how they're going for a directional combat system.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Samurai on March 23, 2018, 12:50:12 pm
Nerf Austro
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Jean-Baptiste on March 23, 2018, 02:50:12 pm
Nerf Austro

Needs to be done.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Austro on March 23, 2018, 06:25:55 pm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306195621373542400/426526804359118850/2018-01-21_0148.png)

What are you talking about
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Merchaun on June 12, 2018, 04:54:49 am
The combat since the server latency fix has been improved. However, the combat is still very clunky and hitboxes very small, the hitboxes are very accurate around the character, don't get me wrong. However, because bayonets are so accurate when thrusting you'll most likely miss alot. Swords are very bias in Holdfast, and have super quick swing animations. Can we do something about this?

Yes, indeed! We will be working on a new set of sword animations. The hitbox will also be looked into.

What about the overall speed/delay of blocks and attacks with a bayonet? :)

I agree with this, I think the hitboxes and the delay of attacks/blocks makes it very clunky and awkward. It's not a fluid motion, and I believe it's far too slow to have a proper fight.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Starblazer on June 12, 2018, 06:40:07 am
Nerf Austro

Needs to be done.

Will this be in the next update? Cause tbh I was actually hoping for more door memes.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Fullbustr on June 14, 2018, 09:32:57 am
Wondering if it would be possible to make bayonet on the rifle removable.

when starting the game every line infantry starts with the bayonet in its sheath.
By using the toggle melee the char takes out the bayonets and sockets it on the rifle ( 3sec animation). and melee combat goes like its now.
By socketing the bayonet the char does now do more damage and can stab with the rifle but gets a penalty to loading the rifle aswell as being a bit less acurate ( since the added weight of the socket and blade will cause steadying the rifle to be harder aswell as during the reload you need to watchout that you dont accidently cut your own hand).
Unsocketed rifles are more used as a club and can't stab. they do have the advantage of not having aiming or loading penalties.

Further more commanders would get the option when the distance between 2 lines isnt to great to go over to a charge where the oponent that didnt socket his bayonet yet would be add dis advantage. also infantry that uses swords would have an advantage if a char forgot or wasnt able to socket his bayonet.

This could also become very usefull for when cavalry is added to the game since with out the bayonet infantry is just fodder for the lancers/hussars/cuirassiers. but with the bayonet fixed and forming square cavalry doesnt stand a chance (it would would show the difference between rabble and an organized regiment).

I think these change would benefit the game greatly and add an extra level of depth since the commanders would now need to choice between can we risk not equiping the bayonet.

An example:
The enemy could feint a charge with unsocketed rifle which could cause the commander to interrupting the reloading of his batalion and making them equip bayonets while the enemy actually stops fires and then retreats out of melee charge range. one could then ofcourse charge the now retreating line or resume reloading or socket the bayonets again and curse himself for not seeing that the enemy charged with unsocketed rifles.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Absol on June 14, 2018, 06:25:13 pm
Wondering if it would be possible to make bayonet on the rifle removable.

when starting the game every line infantry starts with the bayonet in its sheath.
By using the toggle melee the char takes out the bayonets and sockets it on the rifle ( 3sec animation). and melee combat goes like its now.
By socketing the bayonet the char does now do more damage and can stab with the rifle but gets a penalty to loading the rifle aswell as being a bit less acurate ( since the added weight of the socket and blade will cause steadying the rifle to be harder aswell as during the reload you need to watchout that you dont accidently cut your own hand).
Unsocketed rifles are more used as a club and can't stab. they do have the advantage of not having aiming or loading penalties.

This is planned and has been talked about in the development roadmap. http://www.holdfastgame.com/News/Post?p=1027
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Starblazer on June 14, 2018, 06:47:50 pm
Wondering if it would be possible to make bayonet on the rifle removable.

when starting the game every line infantry starts with the bayonet in its sheath.
By using the toggle melee the char takes out the bayonets and sockets it on the rifle ( 3sec animation). and melee combat goes like its now.
By socketing the bayonet the char does now do more damage and can stab with the rifle but gets a penalty to loading the rifle aswell as being a bit less acurate ( since the added weight of the socket and blade will cause steadying the rifle to be harder aswell as during the reload you need to watchout that you dont accidently cut your own hand).
Unsocketed rifles are more used as a club and can't stab. they do have the advantage of not having aiming or loading penalties.

This is planned and has been talked about in the development roadmap. http://www.holdfastgame.com/News/Post?p=1027
While I like it for the realism, if bayonet-mounted shooting makes the standard muskets more inaccurate, then without a rifleman accuracy nerf they will be even more OP. But this is a melee thread so I'm all for some fixing of the bayonets.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Sanders on June 14, 2018, 08:44:57 pm
Reconstruct the entire combat system please!
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: seldomsabel on July 16, 2018, 05:55:50 am
Laying on the ground I think is a standard in combat games, it helps players take a moment to catch there thoughts. Also Surgeons should be able to assist others while croutching.

And maybe implimenting a system where a captain over talks everyone around. So there intructions get passed without trolls playing music cant overwelm the chatting with music
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Austro on July 16, 2018, 07:19:57 pm
And maybe implimenting a system where a captain over talks everyone around. So there intructions get passed without trolls playing music cant overwelm the chatting with music

but then the music troll would just go captain class lol
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Saga on August 06, 2018, 05:06:31 am
December 03, 2017
[close]
Now ("Saga has invited you to play Holdfast Nations at War.")
[close]
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Wolfster on August 08, 2018, 04:18:30 pm
December 03, 2017
[close]
Now ("Saga has invited you to play Holdfast Nations at War.")
[close]
legit
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Saga on August 15, 2018, 06:54:25 am
We've had about 500 people come through the 4th in whats almost a year. The vast majority hated the melee even if they never played NW. Bad melee, and repetitive gameplay is the number one reason we've had for people leaving.
For the ones that did play NW they went in expecting the minimum standard of melee to be a copy of it. Any improvements would be grand, then after giving linebattles a chance they just leave (I've followed up with our websites member profiles and the overwhelming majority have not played Holdfast recently).
But seriously its getting hard to keep people around. We have people who use the musket in GTAV more often than they play Holdfast at this point.

My only suggestion now can be that we would be ok with a clone/exact copy of NW's melee system. Won't even need any improvements.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: J. Campbell on September 26, 2018, 10:17:44 pm
We've had about 500 people come through the 4th in whats almost a year. The vast majority hated the melee even if they never played NW. Bad melee, and repetitive gameplay is the number one reason we've had for people leaving.
For the ones that did play NW they went in expecting the minimum standard of melee to be a copy of it. Any improvements would be grand, then after giving linebattles a chance they just leave (I've followed up with our websites member profiles and the overwhelming majority have not played Holdfast recently).
But seriously its getting hard to keep people around. We have people who use the musket in GTAV more often than they play Holdfast at this point.

My only suggestion now can be that we would be ok with a clone/exact copy of NW's melee system. Won't even need any improvements.
I have to honestly agree with this.  The melee system of NW was amazing and made Linebattles an 1v1's amazing. The amount of things we as reg reps could do with melee is astonishing, including leagues similar to NANWL/TNWL etc. Melee is a basis for competitive play, and quite honestly, it'd make the big regiments shit themselves if a bunch of us NW guys got together and made an elite group focused on melee if new melee was implemented in the NW standard.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Thomas cible facile on November 09, 2018, 02:30:52 pm
I like the new melee update but I wanted to share some thoughts on Melee.

What bothers me

What bothers me is that the character animation is strange and you're character can rotate on himself that easily while on melee (wich can lead to people spinning around trying to stab each others.)
I feel like spin around thing should be removed and that the melee should be more frontal. Currently It looks like a WW1 aircraft duel...

What I propose

It would be cool to have some inertia and a more detailed animation to add more immersion to the game.

For exemple :

When standing

Couldn't find any video showing this but that's the kind of animation your character has in the hitman 2 silent assassin when you look around.

When running

Not sure If I am really clear about those movements.

PS :


This would increase the power of melee since you could manage to get so close to the enemy line that they'll need to go melee or step back to shoot.

Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: TheProTaco on November 13, 2018, 06:37:44 pm
Realistic melee = bad.

It's not what players want. Everyone but a few diehards who don't even play the game want arcade style twitchy melee like in NW. If that weren't true NW wouldn't still be massively successful and you wouldn't see the primary reason for people leaving this community being how slow and broken the melee is.

We've had about 500 people come through the 4th in whats almost a year. The vast majority hated the melee even if they never played NW. Bad melee, and repetitive gameplay is the number one reason we've had for people leaving.
For the ones that did play NW they went in expecting the minimum standard of melee to be a copy of it. Any improvements would be grand, then after giving linebattles a chance they just leave (I've followed up with our websites member profiles and the overwhelming majority have not played Holdfast recently).
But seriously its getting hard to keep people around. We have people who use the musket in GTAV more often than they play Holdfast at this point.

My only suggestion now can be that we would be ok with a clone/exact copy of NW's melee system. Won't even need any improvements.

Can't agree more, we've seen about 400 or so people come in/go through over the last year and the main reason was melee. Ask any even moderately sized regiment and they'll be able to say they've seen the same thing. This wasn't an issue in NW so clearly people liked it then.

Some good work has gone into melee recently and its had a massive positive effect throughout most of the community, the general feedback I hear from dozens of our own members daily is that it still needs to be way faster, have more dynamic damage based on speed and hit location, and introduce mechanics for skilled play. NW had chambering, the "clashes" or "parries" as people are calling them in Holdfast don't come close to producing the same effect, they're useless and generally accidental.


TL;DR most of the community wants fast twitchy combat, anyone who says otherwise is out of touch or unfamiliar with the community. Sorry not sorry.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Starblazer on November 13, 2018, 07:41:41 pm
Kicks when
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: TheProTaco on November 13, 2018, 11:21:52 pm
Kicks when
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: VetroG on November 14, 2018, 04:34:25 am
From the 20 minutes I spent testing out the melee recently since I've barely played at all since my old regiment disbanded it wasn't the best but kind of better than it was in 2017. If I were you I'd definitely add kicks later on but as of right now you should focus on the blocking and attacking features. The attack and blocking is very slow and feels like a slingshot as soon as you click right or left the stab or block should automatically kick in it's just far too slow. Feinting is another step I'd like to see be increased in speed kind of like NW in a way. The swing stabbing is way too overpowered as you literally retarded you could hit anything. Anyways this is just some of my feed back! Hope it helps.

If you'd like more feedback about some melee suggestions I'd contact one of these people (Most of them NW Veterans).

NickCole
MATT
VetroG
Godfreid
Wastee
RussianFury
Havoc
Yoshie
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Wolfster on November 14, 2018, 09:06:46 am
Spoiler
[close]
Surely EU players would be best to contact as EU melee is confirmed best  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: Starblazer on November 14, 2018, 10:53:56 pm
NickCole
MATT
VetroG
Godfreid
Wastee
RussianFury
Havoc
Yoshie
To be fair I think the heaviest considered suggestions should come from people that actually play the game.

I agree with Vetro about some feint speed stuff though. Could be a faster system overall, although the current system really isn't too bad, but players tend to sort of stalemate since the main components of duels are now footwork, feints, & attacks/blocks without any extra system of kicks or chambers.
Title: Re: Melee suggestions/idea's, come share them here!
Post by: VetroG on November 15, 2018, 03:39:25 pm
NickCole
MATT
VetroG
Godfreid
Wastee
RussianFury
Havoc
Yoshie
To be fair I think the heaviest considered suggestions should come from people that actually play the game.

I agree with Vetro about some feint speed stuff though. Could be a faster system overall, although the current system really isn't too bad, but players tend to sort of stalemate since the main components of duels are now footwork, feints, & attacks/blocks without any extra system of kicks or chambers.
Yeah of course. I think they should also make it where you S Key it's like a little sprint back wards not walking pace.

Quote
Surely EU players would be best to contact as EU melee is confirmed best  ::) ::)
Got me there Wolfster  :-[